What I hope Lassosoft is doing right now

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

What I hope Lassosoft is doing right now

Lars A. Gundersen-2
Kyle/Kerry/Lassosoft has gone dead quiet on the list, since August. The weekly infomails are no more, since June. What are they doing? I don't know, but here's hoping.

Look at the following graph for authors/threads on the Lasso list 2007 - Aug 2010 (the official stats stopped coming after that, another thing that stopped).
http://bildr.no/view/730908

The number of authors posting per month has declined from about 130-140 to 70-80, i.e. almost halved. It seems to be a fair assumption that on the whole, the percentage of Lasso users that are on the list is somewhat constant, so that the number of people on the list represent a pertentage of active Lasso users, i.e. paying customers.

I will *not* speculate on any numbers here, but AFAICS, Lassosoft has three revenue streams: Product sales, paid support and the Lasso alliance program. All three, of course, are dependant on the number of active users of Lasso. The alliance program, which is $1000 and $800 for new and renewal, is a yearly subscriptiion, but the support and Lasso products are sold per incident and per license. The last paid upgrade of Lasso before 9 was 8.5, which was released June 2006, over 4 years ago.

Of course, Lasso doesn't only sell copies when new versions are released. But it also seems to be a fair assumption that a percentage of *new* Lasso users find their way to the Lasso list. The list is very easy to find on the website (at least now, I don't remember before the new redesign). You can try to remember for yourself how many new people we have seen pop up the last few years.

Sorry for the long prelude, but it leads up to this: I think Lassosoft is really stretched thin now. They have one great thing going for them right now: Lasso 9. But they struggle in the market, even with that. The world has changed: The platforms/frameworks that are not free are typically niche, like Unity 3D, or they enjoy some sort of monopoly-like status, like Flash developer/server (for the time being). The rest are free, and some are provided as a tie-ins or vendor lock-ins: Xcode, .Net, or they are simply free because, well, because some people thought it would be cool to make something.

Lasso is competing against the latter category, and it's difficult. Not necessarily because Lasso as a product doesn't have advantages over these free alternatives, but simply, I think, because it is impossible to build momentum for a web platform when deploying a production solution is going to cost you $$$. It just doesn't grok with the people who's starting out, looking at the landscape.

So I am hoping Lassosoft at this very moment is sitting with some investors, showing them Lasso 9 and convincing them that it's a viable platform to compete technically with the others out there, but also telling them they need 5 years to build enough momentum that it is possible to run a business around a free base product (Lasso server) and the surrounding value-added products and services.

I apologize if I offend Lassosoft or anybody by this. I have tried to refrain from speculating, even though I realize I don't know the full picture. This is still the best possibility i can think of for Lassosoft. This comes from a place of wanting to help, and I hope others chime in also.

Lars

#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: What I hope Lassosoft is doing right now

Neil Enock
Perhaps Lassosoft could look to the community for funding (if that's something that is required).

Neil
--
    Chromata: Custom B2C, B2B Website Design, Hosting & Marketing
                       ePrint-Network: i-t-p:  internet to Print
             Cribscapes.com:  Incredible 3D Cribbage Boards!

ph 403.452.5253         http://www.chromata.com         [hidden email]
fx 403.398.1511         http://www.ePrint-Network.com   [hidden email]




On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Lars A. Gundersen wrote:

> Kyle/Kerry/Lassosoft has gone dead quiet on the list, since August. The weekly infomails are no more, since June. What are they doing? I don't know, but here's hoping.
>
> Look at the following graph for authors/threads on the Lasso list 2007 - Aug 2010 (the official stats stopped coming after that, another thing that stopped).
> http://bildr.no/view/730908
>
> The number of authors posting per month has declined from about 130-140 to 70-80, i.e. almost halved. It seems to be a fair assumption that on the whole, the percentage of Lasso users that are on the list is somewhat constant, so that the number of people on the list represent a pertentage of active Lasso users, i.e. paying customers.
>
> I will *not* speculate on any numbers here, but AFAICS, Lassosoft has three revenue streams: Product sales, paid support and the Lasso alliance program. All three, of course, are dependant on the number of active users of Lasso. The alliance program, which is $1000 and $800 for new and renewal, is a yearly subscriptiion, but the support and Lasso products are sold per incident and per license. The last paid upgrade of Lasso before 9 was 8.5, which was released June 2006, over 4 years ago.
>
> Of course, Lasso doesn't only sell copies when new versions are released. But it also seems to be a fair assumption that a percentage of *new* Lasso users find their way to the Lasso list. The list is very easy to find on the website (at least now, I don't remember before the new redesign). You can try to remember for yourself how many new people we have seen pop up the last few years.
>
> Sorry for the long prelude, but it leads up to this: I think Lassosoft is really stretched thin now. They have one great thing going for them right now: Lasso 9. But they struggle in the market, even with that. The world has changed: The platforms/frameworks that are not free are typically niche, like Unity 3D, or they enjoy some sort of monopoly-like status, like Flash developer/server (for the time being). The rest are free, and some are provided as a tie-ins or vendor lock-ins: Xcode, .Net, or they are simply free because, well, because some people thought it would be cool to make something.
>
> Lasso is competing against the latter category, and it's difficult. Not necessarily because Lasso as a product doesn't have advantages over these free alternatives, but simply, I think, because it is impossible to build momentum for a web platform when deploying a production solution is going to cost you $$$. It just doesn't grok with the people who's starting out, looking at the landscape.
>
> So I am hoping Lassosoft at this very moment is sitting with some investors, showing them Lasso 9 and convincing them that it's a viable platform to compete technically with the others out there, but also telling them they need 5 years to build enough momentum that it is possible to run a business around a free base product (Lasso server) and the surrounding value-added products and services.
>
> I apologize if I offend Lassosoft or anybody by this. I have tried to refrain from speculating, even though I realize I don't know the full picture. This is still the best possibility i can think of for Lassosoft. This comes from a place of wanting to help, and I hope others chime in also.
>
> Lars
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: What I hope Lassosoft is doing right now

Clive Bruton
In reply to this post by Lars A. Gundersen-2

On 4 Oct 2010, at 16:57, Lars A. Gundersen wrote:

> The number of authors posting per month has declined from about  
> 130-140 to 70-80, i.e. almost halved. It seems to be a fair  
> assumption that on the whole, the percentage of Lasso users that  
> are on the list is somewhat constant, so that the number of people  
> on the list represent a pertentage of active Lasso users, i.e.  
> paying customers.

I'm not sure that logic dictates that this is a useful statistic (it  
might be, but it equally might not be), since it seem more likely to  
me that the list is going to be busier when there is a new release  
and people are experiencing issues with that release. As I think has  
been noted there hasn't been a significant release between 2005 (8.5)  
and 2010 (9.0), and with the latest release there don't appear to be  
that many users. I'm guessing that people are currently put off by  
the lack of documentation and the perceived problems of migration.

But, here are some longer-term stats on the number of actual posts to  
the list (in six month segments):

2005 Jan-June 7,920 (beginning of Jan is missing)
2005 July-Dec 6,255
2006 Jan-June 8,010
2006 July-Dec 6,229
2007 Jan-June 7,052
2007 July-Dec 5,371
2008 Jan-June 6,569
2008 July-Dec 4,314
2009 Jan-June 4,997
2009 July-Dec 3,424
2010 Jan-June 3,193

Make of those what you will.

As to the other points you raised. I can say that had LassoSoft  
offered an 8.5 licence while waiting for the promise they made of a  
9.0 licence (at some point in the future), if you pay now, then they  
would have had a few more dollars of my money in their pockets. But  
since this notion was rejected... they don't.


-- Clive

#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: What I hope Lassosoft is doing right now

decorior
I think there is more behind this.

There is almost nothing that we need to do that cannot be done in Lasso 8.5 (so the posts go down!). Speed is an issue, but not functionality. Sure, there are some pieces of functionality I was looking for but these are not even in Lasso 9.

Most of the web development over the last few years has been on client side javascript. That is where all the developments have been for most of us developing web applications (and excitement).

Now, it is app development, so the server side is almost irreverent for many people (SOAP, REST, XML, who cares). Lasso does not have good front-end tools (by design) so that is not an issue either, since we use third party tools to build the look and feel just fine (like most developers I know).

Personally, if lasso has upgraded 8 to support fast CGI, and support for Cent OS 5 (like Rudy), I would have been pretty happy, since I think that is where a lot of the speed enhancements and scalability are. They could probably have thrown in faster session handling, and we would have dropped the money on an upgrade without even thinking.

There are definitely some cool things going on on the server side, but as far as I can tell they are not part of Lasso 9.

BUT, I also believe that they got lots of direction from the community, so I tend to believe we are a minority in our thinking.

Deco




On Oct 5, 2010, at 5:05 PM, Clive Bruton wrote:

>
> On 4 Oct 2010, at 16:57, Lars A. Gundersen wrote:
>
>> The number of authors posting per month has declined from about 130-140 to 70-80, i.e. almost halved. It seems to be a fair assumption that on the whole, the percentage of Lasso users that are on the list is somewhat constant, so that the number of people on the list represent a pertentage of active Lasso users, i.e. paying customers.
>
> I'm not sure that logic dictates that this is a useful statistic (it might be, but it equally might not be), since it seem more likely to me that the list is going to be busier when there is a new release and people are experiencing issues with that release. As I think has been noted there hasn't been a significant release between 2005 (8.5) and 2010 (9.0), and with the latest release there don't appear to be that many users. I'm guessing that people are currently put off by the lack of documentation and the perceived problems of migration.
>
> But, here are some longer-term stats on the number of actual posts to the list (in six month segments):
>
> 2005 Jan-June 7,920 (beginning of Jan is missing)
> 2005 July-Dec 6,255
> 2006 Jan-June 8,010
> 2006 July-Dec 6,229
> 2007 Jan-June 7,052
> 2007 July-Dec 5,371
> 2008 Jan-June 6,569
> 2008 July-Dec 4,314
> 2009 Jan-June 4,997
> 2009 July-Dec 3,424
> 2010 Jan-June 3,193
>
> Make of those what you will.
>
> As to the other points you raised. I can say that had LassoSoft offered an 8.5 licence while waiting for the promise they made of a 9.0 licence (at some point in the future), if you pay now, then they would have had a few more dollars of my money in their pockets. But since this notion was rejected... they don't.
>
>
> -- Clive
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>

Deco Rior
[hidden email]

O:(720) 207-2806
F:(303) 942-7417

TennisSource.Net
software to power your tennis facility


This electronic mail message is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and privileged information.   Any unauthorized review, use, printing, copying, retention, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email message to the sender and delete all copies of this message. Thank you


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: What I hope Lassosoft is doing right now

stevepiercy
In reply to this post by Clive Bruton
On 10/6/10 at 12:05 AM, [hidden email] (Clive Bruton) pronounced:

>On 4 Oct 2010, at 16:57, Lars A. Gundersen wrote:
>
>>The number of authors posting per month has declined from
>>about 130-140 to 70-80, i.e. almost halved. It seems to be a
>>fair assumption that on the whole, the percentage of Lasso
>>users that are on the list is somewhat constant, so that the
>>number of people on the list represent a pertentage of active
>>Lasso users, i.e. paying customers.
>
>I'm not sure that logic dictates that this is a useful
>statistic (it might be, but it equally might not be), since it
>seem more likely to me that the list is going to be busier when
>there is a new release and people are experiencing issues with
>that release. As I think has been noted there hasn't been a
>significant release between 2005 (8.5) and 2010 (9.0), and with
>the latest release there don't appear to be that many users.
>I'm guessing that people are currently put off by the lack of
>documentation and the perceived problems of migration.

Also there are searchable list archives which are well-indexed
by the major search engines, so I would assume that folks would
do a little research first, then post a question to the list.

And as Lasso developers become more familiar with the language,
they are less likely to post questions to the list.

And there was a recent list-barf.  Numerous people were unsubbed
and were unable to resub.

I would not draw any conclusions based on the number of threads
and authors alone.  There's a lot more going on.

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: What I hope Lassosoft is doing right now

bfr00
In reply to this post by decorior
Love the Freudian slip.

Bruce

On Oct 5, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Deco Rior wrote:

> Now, it is app development, so the server side is almost irreverent for many people (SOAP, REST, XML, who cares).


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>