WebSockets & Lasso

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WebSockets & Lasso

Steve Upton

Has anyone played with WebSockets and Lasso?

Any ideas on how to get the two to play together? I'm thinking an Apache plug-in but I'm still not sure how things would connect to Lasso...

Lasso also seems to be a very page-oriented system so I'm not sure if it would be possible to get Lasso to act appropriately to a page that never closes w/ bidirectional communications...

regards,

Steve Upton

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RE: WebSockets & Lasso

Rick Draper-2
Hi Steve,

Which version of Lasso are you considering for the task?  Lasso 9 may be an option for websockets... when we were considering Python a while back I looked at Autobahn (http://www.tavendo.de/autobahn) and I see that there is an alpha JavaScript WebSocket Client & Server implementation on github (https://github.com/Worlize/WebSocket-Node)

We do a lot of data exchange with external systems (Push/Pull) with Lasso 8.5.* via HTTPS, but not using websockets.  What are you connecting to?

Very best regards,

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Upton
Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011 9:57 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: WebSockets & Lasso


Has anyone played with WebSockets and Lasso?

Any ideas on how to get the two to play together? I'm thinking an Apache plug-in but I'm still not sure how things would connect to Lasso...

Lasso also seems to be a very page-oriented system so I'm not sure if it would be possible to get Lasso to act appropriately to a page that never closes w/ bidirectional communications...

regards,

Steve Upton


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RE: WebSockets & Lasso

Steve Upton
At 10:22 AM +1000 8/19/11, Rick Draper wrote:
>Hi Steve,
>
>Which version of Lasso are you considering for the task?  Lasso 9 may be an option for websockets...

Well, we're looking at the longer term view so I suppose a Lasso 9-only solution would be acceptable.

>when we were considering Python a while back I looked at Autobahn (http://www.tavendo.de/autobahn) and I see that there is an alpha JavaScript WebSocket Client & Server implementation on github (https://github.com/Worlize/WebSocket-Node)
>
>We do a lot of data exchange with external systems (Push/Pull) with Lasso 8.5.* via HTTPS, but not using websockets.  What are you connecting to?

We have a fairly comprehensive framework in Lasso that we'd like to connect to our browser-based AJAX-style UI more effectively.

I've been reading more and more about it and have been surprised that it doesn't look like people have even been asking about it with Lasso.

Steve


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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Jonathan Guthrie-3
Hi Steve,

XHR* requests to Lasso are pretty standard, run-of-the-mill these days, so it probably doesn't warrant much specific mention.

*XHR as a general catchall referring to the type of request from jQuery and other JS libs that use AJAX or similar communications.

All it requires is the encode of a data type (usually a map) and the setting of the content-type header correctly.

Thanks

Jono




On 2011-08-19, at 2:08 PM, Steve Upton wrote:

> At 10:22 AM +1000 8/19/11, Rick Draper wrote:
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Which version of Lasso are you considering for the task?  Lasso 9 may be an option for websockets...
>
> Well, we're looking at the longer term view so I suppose a Lasso 9-only solution would be acceptable.
>
>> when we were considering Python a while back I looked at Autobahn (http://www.tavendo.de/autobahn) and I see that there is an alpha JavaScript WebSocket Client & Server implementation on github (https://github.com/Worlize/WebSocket-Node)
>>
>> We do a lot of data exchange with external systems (Push/Pull) with Lasso 8.5.* via HTTPS, but not using websockets.  What are you connecting to?
>
> We have a fairly comprehensive framework in Lasso that we'd like to connect to our browser-based AJAX-style UI more effectively.
>
> I've been reading more and more about it and have been surprised that it doesn't look like people have even been asking about it with Lasso.
>
> Steve

Jono

----------------------------
Jonathan Guthrie
[hidden email]
LassoSoft Inc.

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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Jonathan Guthrie-3
I should have included a link to a recent article on the subject, meant as an introduction:
http://www.lassosoft.com/A-guide-to-using-Lasso-9-and-jQuery



On 2011-08-19, at 2:11 PM, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> XHR* requests to Lasso are pretty standard, run-of-the-mill these days, so it probably doesn't warrant much specific mention.
>
> *XHR as a general catchall referring to the type of request from jQuery and other JS libs that use AJAX or similar communications.
>
> All it requires is the encode of a data type (usually a map) and the setting of the content-type header correctly.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jono
>
>
>
>
> On 2011-08-19, at 2:08 PM, Steve Upton wrote:
>
>> At 10:22 AM +1000 8/19/11, Rick Draper wrote:
>>> Hi Steve,
>>>
>>> Which version of Lasso are you considering for the task?  Lasso 9 may be an option for websockets...
>>
>> Well, we're looking at the longer term view so I suppose a Lasso 9-only solution would be acceptable.
>>
>>> when we were considering Python a while back I looked at Autobahn (http://www.tavendo.de/autobahn) and I see that there is an alpha JavaScript WebSocket Client & Server implementation on github (https://github.com/Worlize/WebSocket-Node)
>>>
>>> We do a lot of data exchange with external systems (Push/Pull) with Lasso 8.5.* via HTTPS, but not using websockets.  What are you connecting to?
>>
>> We have a fairly comprehensive framework in Lasso that we'd like to connect to our browser-based AJAX-style UI more effectively.
>>
>> I've been reading more and more about it and have been surprised that it doesn't look like people have even been asking about it with Lasso.
>>
>> Steve
>
> Jono
>

Jono

----------------------------
Jonathan Guthrie
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LassoSoft Inc.

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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Brad Lindsay-2
In reply to this post by Steve Upton
On Aug 19, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Steve Upton wrote:
> I've been reading more and more about it and have been surprised that it doesn't look like people have even been asking about it with Lasso.

It looks like the WebSockets protocol is still in the early stages. There are a number of drafts, and the most recent draft isn't supported by any currently shipping browsers. (According to the Wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebSocket#Browser_support ), it looks like Chrome and Safari have support for some of the earlier drafts and the just-released Firefox 6 finally brings support to Firefox for a different one of the earlier drafts.)

Conclusion: Things are just moving too fast: there is too little adoption and standardization to make the investment of time into WebSockets worth it right now.


Brad
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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Jonathan Guthrie-3
There have been a few other constant-state frameworks that have failed to get off the ground, I spent some time investigating a few last year and none were really robust.
It looks like websockets is gaining momentum, but I agree with Brad - the ground is shifting too much right now IMHO.


On 2011-08-19, at 2:21 PM, Brad Lindsay wrote:

> Conclusion: Things are just moving too fast: there is too little adoption and standardization to make the investment of time into WebSockets worth it right now.

Jono

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LassoSoft Inc.

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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Steve Upton
In reply to this post by Jonathan Guthrie-3
At 2:11 PM -0400 8/19/11, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
>Hi Steve,
>
>XHR* requests to Lasso are pretty standard, run-of-the-mill these days, so it probably doesn't warrant much specific mention.
>
>*XHR as a general catchall referring to the type of request from jQuery and other JS libs that use AJAX or similar communications.
>
>All it requires is the encode of a data type (usually a map) and the setting of the content-type header correctly.

Thanks but we're already well into AJAX-style communications with Lasso serving HTML fragments and JSON content as needed for our web app.

It's the continuous-connection and bidirectional communication components of WebSockets that doesn't jibe with the way Lasso works (in the model in my head).

So I'm wondering what we might need to do from a server perspective (Apache module or other) and from a Lasso connection, coding, and event model perspective in order to support it.


At 2:21 PM -0400 8/19/11, Brad Lindsay wrote:
>
>It looks like the WebSockets protocol is still in the early stages. There are a number of drafts, and the most recent draft isn't supported by any currently shipping browsers. (According to the Wikipedia page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebSocket#Browser_support ), it looks like Chrome and Safari have support for some of the earlier drafts and the just-released Firefox 6 finally brings support to Firefox for a different one of the earlier drafts.)
>
>Conclusion: Things are just moving too fast: there is too little adoption and standardization to make the investment of time into WebSockets worth it right now.

I'm not sharing your perspective on this anymore. It seems to finally have a head of steam and we're seeing support in other libraries and development tools.

We're excited to take advantage of WebSockets strengths *and* it seems the implementation re/ Lasso may not be trivial so we'd better get started figuring out how to make it all work.

regards,

Steve


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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Jonathan Guthrie-3
On 2011-08-19, at 3:40 PM, Steve Upton wrote:

> Thanks but we're already well into AJAX-style communications with Lasso serving HTML fragments and JSON content as needed for our web app.

I merely wished to point out why AJAX was not talked about a lot within the Lasso list, i.e. answering your specific comment :)


> It's the continuous-connection and bidirectional communication components of WebSockets that doesn't jibe with the way Lasso works (in the model in my head).
> So I'm wondering what we might need to do from a server perspective (Apache module or other) and from a Lasso connection, coding, and event model perspective in order to support it.

You're thinking Lasso 9 is bound to the standard state-bound web processes via Apache only... I can tell you it's not limited to that at all, it's just it's most common implementation. As for writing a full websockets-compatible event system, from what I have read recently it should be very achievable.
It would not be too hard to create a Lasso9 listener process (via Apache/mod_fastcgi or standalone) to respond and push based on specific stimuli or port communications.



Jono

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Jonathan Guthrie
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LassoSoft Inc.

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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Steve Upton
At 4:20 PM -0400 8/19/11, Jonathan Guthrie wrote:
>On 2011-08-19, at 3:40 PM, Steve Upton wrote:
>
>> It's the continuous-connection and bidirectional communication components of WebSockets that doesn't jibe with the way Lasso works (in the model in my head).
>> So I'm wondering what we might need to do from a server perspective (Apache module or other) and from a Lasso connection, coding, and event model perspective in order to support it.
>
>You're thinking Lasso 9 is bound to the standard state-bound web processes via Apache only... I can tell you it's not limited to that at all, it's just it's most common implementation. As for writing a full websockets-compatible event system, from what I have read recently it should be very achievable.
>It would not be too hard to create a Lasso9 listener process (via Apache/mod_fastcgi or standalone) to respond and push based on specific stimuli or port communications.

Ah! great, that's the sort of response I was looking for. We're not on Lasso 9 yet and just looking into WebSockets & learning about the changes that might be needed.

You make it sound quite possible with Lasso 9 which, I guess, is what I need for now.

Thanks,

Steve


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Re: WebSockets & Lasso

Steffan A. Cline
In reply to this post by Jonathan Guthrie-3
Even LP8.x could do these things. I wrote a Lasso Proxy Server for
handling file uploads and providing feedback for the progress bar. Lasso
had its own listener on a different port and would then save the files and
pass the data to itself for normal processing etc.

It's surprisingly not that bad!


Thanks

Steffan

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On 8/19/11 1:20 PM, "Jonathan Guthrie" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 2011-08-19, at 3:40 PM, Steve Upton wrote:
>
>> Thanks but we're already well into AJAX-style communications with Lasso
>>serving HTML fragments and JSON content as needed for our web app.
>
>I merely wished to point out why AJAX was not talked about a lot within
>the Lasso list, i.e. answering your specific comment :)
>
>
>> It's the continuous-connection and bidirectional communication
>>components of WebSockets that doesn't jibe with the way Lasso works (in
>>the model in my head).
>> So I'm wondering what we might need to do from a server perspective
>>(Apache module or other) and from a Lasso connection, coding, and event
>>model perspective in order to support it.
>
>You're thinking Lasso 9 is bound to the standard state-bound web
>processes via Apache only... I can tell you it's not limited to that at
>all, it's just it's most common implementation. As for writing a full
>websockets-compatible event system, from what I have read recently it
>should be very achievable.
>It would not be too hard to create a Lasso9 listener process (via
>Apache/mod_fastcgi or standalone) to respond and push based on specific
>stimuli or port communications.
>
>
>
>Jono
>
>----------------------------
>Jonathan Guthrie
>[hidden email]
>LassoSoft Inc.
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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>


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