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Upgrades

Sean Stephens-2
Lassoers

There has been significant confusion and many questions around upgrades, so I am dropping you all a note on the matter. Note that based on early feedback, we are currently working on an upgrade calculator to be posted to the site and some more content on the site to help understanding of how upgrading works.

As per this page; http://new.lassosoft.com/Lasso-past-versions, upgrades are being handled differently in the new world order. An excerpt from this page;

Upgrades prices are tiered based on how current, or old, the license you are upgrading from is. For example:
    *Upgrade from Lasso 8.5 to a Perpetual 8.6 or 9 is 30% of the value of the new license you choose.
    *Upgrade from Lasso 8.1 to a Perpetual 8.6 or 9 is 40% of the value of the new license you choose.
    *Upgrade from Lasso 5 to a Perpetual 8.6 or 9 is 70% of the value of the new license you choose.

*These options are all available through your login, where each license can be upgraded independently and automatically online. You can't buy an upgrade unless you have a serial in our system, for obvious reasons.

For 80% of you (8.5 to one instance), the upgrade pricing will be this; 30% x $499 = $149.70

This seemed like the most reasonable and easily maintainable mechanism for budgeting upgrades in the future as well.

There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished". We will be contacting anyone who purchased an Lasso 9.0 upgrade, but has not turned off their 8.5, and giving a reasonable time to wrap up and choose one or the other. Choosing to "stick" with 8.5 will allow individuals to return their 9.0 license and "reverse-side-backwards-flip-grade" it to 8.6 for 20% of the initial cost. Again, this seems equitable and fair for all who helped LassoSoft stay alive by purchasing a copy of 9.0 during the Dark Ages of the Inline Curtain.

*There's a catch.

*Here's the catch: after some hiccups with the upgrade purchasing during the final moments before go-live today (i.e. serial number listing issues and logins), we have yanked the upgrade process for the time being while we hunt down the bugs and retest. So YES, the website is live, but NO upgrade pricing will not be available until tomorrow. Sorry about that, we are genuinely trying!

I believe we are all going out to drink green beer now, we are exhausted.

Have a great evening!

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.


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Re: Upgrades

gzasuwa
I took the dive and upgraded to the 8.6-b4 after I backed up the Lasso  
folders.  It installed just fine right over 8.5 and runs like a dream.


Sincerely,

Gerard Zasuwa Gary
Senior Systems Analyst
Henry Ford Health System
Greenfield Health System
(313) 916-2651 work
(313) 585-9621 NEW CELL




On Mar 17, 2011, at 3:42 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:

> Lassoers
>
> There has been significant confusion and many questions around  
> upgrades, so I am dropping you all a note on the matter. Note that  
> based on early feedback, we are currently working on an upgrade  
> calculator to be posted to the site and some more content on the  
> site to help understanding of how upgrading works.
>
> As per this page; http://new.lassosoft.com/Lasso-past-versions,  
> upgrades are being handled differently in the new world order. An  
> excerpt from this page;
>
> Upgrades prices are tiered based on how current, or old, the license  
> you are upgrading from is. For example:
>    *Upgrade from Lasso 8.5 to a Perpetual 8.6 or 9 is 30% of the  
> value of the new license you choose.
>    *Upgrade from Lasso 8.1 to a Perpetual 8.6 or 9 is 40% of the  
> value of the new license you choose.
>    *Upgrade from Lasso 5 to a Perpetual 8.6 or 9 is 70% of the value  
> of the new license you choose.
>
> *These options are all available through your login, where each  
> license can be upgraded independently and automatically online. You  
> can't buy an upgrade unless you have a serial in our system, for  
> obvious reasons.
>
> For 80% of you (8.5 to one instance), the upgrade pricing will be  
> this; 30% x $499 = $149.70
>
> This seemed like the most reasonable and easily maintainable  
> mechanism for budgeting upgrades in the future as well.
>
> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back  
> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".  
> We will be contacting anyone who purchased an Lasso 9.0 upgrade, but  
> has not turned off their 8.5, and giving a reasonable time to wrap  
> up and choose one or the other. Choosing to "stick" with 8.5 will  
> allow individuals to return their 9.0 license and "reverse-side-
> backwards-flip-grade" it to 8.6 for 20% of the initial cost. Again,  
> this seems equitable and fair for all who helped LassoSoft stay  
> alive by purchasing a copy of 9.0 during the Dark Ages of the Inline  
> Curtain.
>
> *There's a catch.
>
> *Here's the catch: after some hiccups with the upgrade purchasing  
> during the final moments before go-live today (i.e. serial number  
> listing issues and logins), we have yanked the upgrade process for  
> the time being while we hunt down the bugs and retest. So YES, the  
> website is live, but NO upgrade pricing will not be available until  
> tomorrow. Sorry about that, we are genuinely trying!
>
> I believe we are all going out to drink green beer now, we are  
> exhausted.
>
> Have a great evening!
>
> Sean Stephens
> CEO
> LassoSoft Inc.
>
>
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Re: Upgrades

Bil Corry-3
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2
Sean Stephens wrote:
> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back
> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".

When was the "officially finished" date?


> We will be contacting anyone who purchased an Lasso 9.0 upgrade, but
> has not turned off their 8.5, and giving a reasonable time to wrap up
> and choose one or the other.

I purchased my Linux and Windows upgrades in October 2008, which at the time only a Mac beta existed.  I wasn't able to do the normal downloading of a trial version to evaluate how much work would be involved with upgrading my code -- instead I upgraded to support LassoSoft and wasn't concerned given the compatibility goals of Lasso 9.

Fast forward to today: nearly 2.5 years later and I still don't have my Windows upgrade as it doesn't exist.  I haven't used my Linux upgrade because I've been waiting for my Windows upgrade (and I'm waiting for L9 to mature more).

Personally, I think anyone who upgraded years ago should simply be able to run LP8.5 side-by-side with L9 indefinitely.  If not, then a "reasonable time to wrap up" should be the same amount of time as the purchase date of the upgrade to the delivery date of a production-ready L9.  If I have to wait years, seems fair that LassoSoft should too.


> Choosing to "stick" with 8.5 will allow
> individuals to return their 9.0 license and
> "reverse-side-backwards-flip-grade" it to 8.6 for 20% of the initial
> cost. Again, this seems equitable and fair for all who helped
> LassoSoft stay alive by purchasing a copy of 9.0 during the Dark Ages
> of the Inline Curtain.

I disagree.  I paid $319.20 to upgrade from LP8.5 to L9.  If I convert that to LP8.6, it'll cost another $159.80 for a perpetual 3-instance license.  So the total cost to me to upgrade from LP8.5 to LP8.6 is $479.  If I hadn't upgraded years ago, upgrading my LP8.5 license now would cost $239.70.  Even if you let me convert from L9 to LP8.6 perpetual 3-instance license for free, I still overpaid.  It's great there is an upgrade path, but I think the numbers only work at the higher-instance levels.

As for the Lasso 9 licenses I own, how will they work once the L9 binaries are updated for the new licensing structure?  Will my serial number show as a perpetual unlimited version?  If so, then getting a $5999 license for $319.20 wasn't a bad deal after all.


- Bil

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Re: Upgrades

Mark Palmer
Similar questions to Bil.

I purchased an 8.5 to 9 upgrade in 22 Sep, 2009 for $400.00 - what do I now own?

I haven't had time to do anything much with Lasso 9 but my intention is make it my primary tool on new projects at least.

Which leads to another question will 8.6 eventually run on CentOS 4.9, I was looking to upgrade two licenses there but if I've got to get those servers up to CentOS 5.5 first then it would be anytime soon and I was looking to sending some money your way for you all your efforts.

On 18 Mar 2011, at 08:04, Bil Corry wrote:

> Sean Stephens wrote:
>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back
>> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".
>
> When was the "officially finished" date?
>
>
>> We will be contacting anyone who purchased an Lasso 9.0 upgrade, but
>> has not turned off their 8.5, and giving a reasonable time to wrap up
>> and choose one or the other.
>
> I purchased my Linux and Windows upgrades in October 2008, which at the time only a Mac beta existed.  I wasn't able to do the normal downloading of a trial version to evaluate how much work would be involved with upgrading my code -- instead I upgraded to support LassoSoft and wasn't concerned given the compatibility goals of Lasso 9.
>
> Fast forward to today: nearly 2.5 years later and I still don't have my Windows upgrade as it doesn't exist.  I haven't used my Linux upgrade because I've been waiting for my Windows upgrade (and I'm waiting for L9 to mature more).
>
> Personally, I think anyone who upgraded years ago should simply be able to run LP8.5 side-by-side with L9 indefinitely.  If not, then a "reasonable time to wrap up" should be the same amount of time as the purchase date of the upgrade to the delivery date of a production-ready L9.  If I have to wait years, seems fair that LassoSoft should too.
>
>
>> Choosing to "stick" with 8.5 will allow
>> individuals to return their 9.0 license and
>> "reverse-side-backwards-flip-grade" it to 8.6 for 20% of the initial
>> cost. Again, this seems equitable and fair for all who helped
>> LassoSoft stay alive by purchasing a copy of 9.0 during the Dark Ages
>> of the Inline Curtain.
>
> I disagree.  I paid $319.20 to upgrade from LP8.5 to L9.  If I convert that to LP8.6, it'll cost another $159.80 for a perpetual 3-instance license.  So the total cost to me to upgrade from LP8.5 to LP8.6 is $479.  If I hadn't upgraded years ago, upgrading my LP8.5 license now would cost $239.70.  Even if you let me convert from L9 to LP8.6 perpetual 3-instance license for free, I still overpaid.  It's great there is an upgrade path, but I think the numbers only work at the higher-instance levels.
>
> As for the Lasso 9 licenses I own, how will they work once the L9 binaries are updated for the new licensing structure?  Will my serial number show as a perpetual unlimited version?  If so, then getting a $5999 license for $319.20 wasn't a bad deal after all.
>
>
> - Bil
>



Regards

Mark Palmer
E: [hidden email]
T: 01902 620500
W: www.pageworks.co.uk




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Re: Upgrades

Lars A. Gundersen-2
In reply to this post by Bil Corry-3

On 18. mars 2011, at 09.04, Bil Corry wrote:

> I disagree.  I paid $319.20 to upgrade from LP8.5 to L9.  If I convert that to LP8.6, it'll cost another $159.80 for a perpetual 3-instance license.  So the total cost to me to upgrade from LP8.5 to LP8.6 is $479.  If I hadn't upgraded years ago, upgrading my LP8.5 license now would cost $239.70.  Even if you let me convert from L9 to LP8.6 perpetual 3-instance license for free, I still overpaid.  It's great there is an upgrade path, but I think the numbers only work at the higher-instance levels.

I agree with Bil on this, I was also confused about this, having purchased a L9 license approx when Bil did, and trying to figure out how this could be fair in any sense of the word.
I thought maybe I had misunderstood, but Bil confirms that it is actually the case that if I want to upgrade from 8.5 to 8.6 I will have to shell out some more. Bear in mind that nobody knew there would be a 8.6 when we purchased the upgrade license. What I actually purchased in 2008 was an upgrade to the next version of Lasso, which I thought then would be L9.
But I have never used L9 and cannot for a good while still. So I think what would be fair from my perspective is that if I choose to apply the license I purchased towards 8.6 instead, I should not be penalized for doing so, but rather be given a good instance-license and a "I used Lasso when Lassosoft was doomed" mug or t-shirt as a thank-you for the support.

Lars
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Re: Upgrades

jasonhuck
In reply to this post by Bil Corry-3
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Bil Corry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sean Stephens wrote:
>>
>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back
>> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".
>
> When was the "officially finished" date?


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/1030-02.jpg



- jason

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Re: Upgrades

Mark Palmer
Urgh! I didn't want to see that.



On 18 Mar 2011, at 10:45, Jason Huck wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Bil Corry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Sean Stephens wrote:
>>>
>>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back
>>> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".
>>
>> When was the "officially finished" date?
>
>
> http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/1030-02.jpg
>
>
>
> - jason


Regards

Mark Palmer
E: [hidden email]
T: 01902 620500
W: www.pageworks.co.uk




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Re: Upgrades

jasonhuck
Sorry, it is pretty early in the morning for such a disturbing image,
but it's also, I feel, an appropriate response to the statement that
9.0 is "finished." As someone, like Bil, who has participated in
pre-alpha, alpha, and beta-testing of 9, regularly monitors the "beta"
mailing list and tests the latest versions from SVN, and has even
ported some smaller solutions to 9 (yes, I've written a fair
smattering of code in 9, I'm not just bleating from the sidelines), I
feel that while 9 has a lot of potential and continues to improve, it
still has a long way to go before I would consider it less of a "beta"
than the current 8.6 (note, still in beta), or a truly viable upgrade
from any previous version of the product. I'm not saying that it isn't
usable in its current state, but it definitely falls short of the
level of completion that I expect from a shipping commercial software
product.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just felt like a reality check
was needed on that one.

JLH




On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Mark Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Urgh! I didn't want to see that.
>
>
>
> On 18 Mar 2011, at 10:45, Jason Huck wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Bil Corry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Sean Stephens wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back
>>>> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".
>>>
>>> When was the "officially finished" date?
>>
>>
>> http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/1030-02.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> - jason
>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Palmer
> E: [hidden email]
> T: 01902 620500
> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>
>
>
>
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>

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Re: Upgrades

Adam de Zoete-2
+1. Does the new L9 installer contain instance management within Lasso
Admin? If not, and it takes exhaustive technical knowledge to install
another instance on the same VM (which is certainly previously did),
then that would be ludicrous to have launched such a pricing scheme at
this point.

Ok, I think the instance model need a little clarification, but further
to this and to vent some more frustration hopefully on behalf of some of
the Lasso ISPs out there, i'm slightly disappointed that a per instance
model was adopted on LP8.6. If there is a loyal customer base out there,
I think that this is not the correct approach. LP8.6 is bug fixes to
unstable previous releases. I haven't the time to do the math and I may
be wrong, but for an ISP with many sites on a shared server the upgrade
cost just for a stable version of their existing sites is extreme! Far
exceeding the original cost of 8.5.

Adam


On 18/03/2011 11:06, Jason Huck wrote:

> Sorry, it is pretty early in the morning for such a disturbing image,
> but it's also, I feel, an appropriate response to the statement that
> 9.0 is "finished." As someone, like Bil, who has participated in
> pre-alpha, alpha, and beta-testing of 9, regularly monitors the "beta"
> mailing list and tests the latest versions from SVN, and has even
> ported some smaller solutions to 9 (yes, I've written a fair
> smattering of code in 9, I'm not just bleating from the sidelines), I
> feel that while 9 has a lot of potential and continues to improve, it
> still has a long way to go before I would consider it less of a "beta"
> than the current 8.6 (note, still in beta), or a truly viable upgrade
> from any previous version of the product. I'm not saying that it isn't
> usable in its current state, but it definitely falls short of the
> level of completion that I expect from a shipping commercial software
> product.
>
> Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just felt like a reality check
> was needed on that one.
>
> JLH
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Mark Palmer<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Urgh! I didn't want to see that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18 Mar 2011, at 10:45, Jason Huck wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Bil Corry<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>> Sean Stephens wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back
>>>>> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".
>>>>
>>>> When was the "officially finished" date?
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/images/1030-02.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - jason
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Palmer
>> E: [hidden email]
>> T: 01902 620500
>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: Upgrades

Richard Taubo
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2
Hi!

On 17. mars 2011, at 20.42, Sean Stephens wrote:
> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back their lisences from 9 to 8.5
> now that 9.0 is officially "finished". We will be contacting anyone who purchased an Lasso 9.0
> upgrade, but has not turned off their 8.5, and giving a reasonable time to wrap up and choose
> one or the other.

With all due respect, this reminds me more of the Monopoly board game than a business strategy:
        Upgrade Lasso 8.5 to Lasso 9
        Draw card: *WAAAAP* => "Go back three spaces!"
        Upgrade Lasso 8.5 to 8.6.  => "Pay 20%"
        Upgrade Lasso 8.6 to Lasso 9.x. => "Pay (possibly) 30% of the value of the new license you choose"
       
I am thrilled if you make money on the Lasso business, but make it fair and simple.

The current price policy reminds me more of this: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/compare/default.aspx
than of this: http://www.apple.com/macosx/

I think you have more to gain by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
than making an extra dime on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination#Third_degree_price_discrimination
       
I think it is important to remind ourselves that Lasso is not a Maserati compared to a Opel or Hyundai!
That was maybe before. Today there are stellar options to Lasso that sports both Rails and TurboGears.
No head-in-sand-hiding or fingers-in-ear-singing-lala-lala-laaa will ever change that.
Only hard work, happy fans as well as "security. speed. simplicity" can make Lasso a successful contender in this race.

So when your slogan says:  "simplicity" Lassosoft, stay true to it from the start!

Richard Taubo
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Re: Upgrades

Black Night Lists
In reply to this post by Adam de Zoete-2

On 18 Mar 2011, at 11:36, Adam de Zoete wrote:

> Ok, I think the instance model need a little clarification, but further to this and to vent some more frustration hopefully on behalf of some of the Lasso ISPs out there, i'm slightly disappointed that a per instance model was adopted on LP8.6. If there is a loyal customer base out there, I think that this is not the correct approach. LP8.6 is bug fixes to unstable previous releases. I haven't the time to do the math and I may be wrong, but for an ISP with many sites on a shared server the upgrade cost just for a stable version of their existing sites is extreme! Far exceeding the original cost of 8.5.

Adam has hit the nail on the head here. As a shared host running Lasso 8.5 some of our clients were given a "Lassosite" either because

a) They specifically requested it or wanted some access to the admin.
b) I wanted to set them up their own "Lassosite" so that they were not affected by other clients/developers hosting with us
c) To spread the load over a few "Lassosites" so that not every web site went down should a lasso process die etc.

I thought that this strategy was a good one, but it looks like I will now be penalised should I upgrade if I read this right.

On our Lasso 8.5 server we have 12 "Lassosites" configured and in order to upgrade to a stable 8.6 we have to either pay a lot of money per month, move people onto a single "Lassosite" or ask them for more money to have their own "Lassosite" (not a real option) or maybe simply stay on 8.5.

I did not object to paying something for the upgrade but this new licensing arrangement on 8.6 does concern me a lot, I will have to think long and hard about even upgrading even though I do want to continue to support Lassosoft in this new era.


Regards

Stephen Thirlwell
Black Night Software
Lasso Hosting and Development
http://www.blacknight.co.uk








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Re: Upgrades

Marc Pope-2
In reply to this post by Adam de Zoete-2
Maybe I drank too much Green Koolaid, but I am not really frustrated at all, I am actually very happy with the new model. I won't be upgrading my old licenses to 8.6, I will just keep the servers I have running on 8.5 the way they are, if there are some sites that are not stable, I will just move them to the new Hosting License Model on a different server.

I will have to raise my "base" hosting cost to host on Lasso 8.6 or Lasso 9, but overall I think the change is good for the community and the viability of the product for the long term.

There's no real reason to upgrade to 8.6 unless you are having the problems with the bugs presented, and I only have that with 1-2 Lasso Sites.

marc pope
falcon internet

On Mar 18, 2011, at 7:36 AM, Adam de Zoete wrote:

> further to this and to vent some more frustration hopefully on behalf of some of the Lasso ISPs out there


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Re: Upgrades

Mark Levin
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2
Sean Stephens wrote:

> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".

For those Lassoers who prepaid for an upgrade to L9 back in 2008 and, with all due respect, are still waiting for a "finished" product, the original terms of their licenses should remain unchanged. While I fully support the new business model going forward, it is not fair, and probably not lawful, to change the terms after payment was accepted.

Lastly, I think that the "upgrade" to 8.6 should be offered as a free stopgap to those of us that prepaid for L9, as I suspect that most are only continuing to use 8.5 only because L9 is still not "finished".

---
Mark Levin, RealTrack Inc

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Re: Upgrades

decorior
Many of us are using 8.5 because the compatibility between the two is non-existent without rewriting the entire application.
We have estimated that the migration to Lasso 9 is a 6 month effort, at the LEAST, and 12 months is more likely. Since it does not play well with 8.5 we cannot run a hybrid model.

The support for 8.6 on the same platform as Lasso 9 does give us a chance to play with some hybrid models, but until we have an available install then we are not sure.

For what is is worth, my CEO does not want me playing with "making it work." She says it is either supported and documented or not. She would rather we solved "our" problems :-)

Deco

On Mar 18, 2011, at 8:55 AM, Mark Levin wrote:

> as I suspect that most are only continuing to use 8.5 only because L9 is still not "finished".

Deco Rior
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Re: Upgrades

John May-2
In reply to this post by Mark Levin
On 3/18/11 10:55 AM, Mark Levin wrote:

> Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back
>> their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially
>> "finished".
>
> For those Lassoers who prepaid for an upgrade to L9 back in 2008 and,
> with all due respect, are still waiting for a "finished" product, the
> original terms of their licenses should remain unchanged. While I
> fully support the new business model going forward, it is not fair,
> and probably not lawful, to change the terms after payment was
> accepted.
>
> Lastly, I think that the "upgrade" to 8.6 should be offered as a free
> stopgap to those of us that prepaid for L9, as I suspect that most
> are only continuing to use 8.5 only because L9 is still not
> "finished".
>
> --- Mark Levin, RealTrack Inc
>


Yes, Lasso 9 licenses purchased previously to this new licensing scheme
should be considered perpetual, unlimited instance licenses.

        - John
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Re: Upgrades

Chris Wik-4
In reply to this post by Mark Levin
On 18.03.2011, at 15:55, Mark Levin wrote:

> Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".
>
> For those Lassoers who prepaid for an upgrade to L9 back in 2008 and, with all due respect, are still waiting for a "finished" product, the original terms of their licenses should remain unchanged. While I fully support the new business model going forward, it is not fair, and probably not lawful, to change the terms after payment was accepted.


I also have a question about this which I can't seem to find an answer to on the new website or on this list so far. My apologies if this has already been answered, there has been an awful lot of discussion about the new licensing.

We bought a brand new Lasso 9 license , which was bought under the previous "one license per server - unlimited instances" model. I run 4 instances of Lasso 9 on one server under this license, 2 of which are production sites and 2 are internal only.

Where do we now stand, in terms of applying the latest L9 updates? If I apply the latest update, is my existing license going to break?

Where do I then stand in terms of obtaining a current Lasso 9 license? Will I have to pay more, or will I get a new-style perpetual license for unlimited L9 instances? (which is what I paid for)

Or is Lasso 9.0 dead now and the next version will be 9.X, with the new licensing model? In which case I am again faced with the prospect of having to upgrade just to get existing bugs fixed.

--
Chris Wik
Anu Internet Services Ltd


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Re: Upgrades

Marc Pinnell-3
+1

On Mar 18, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Chris Wik wrote:

> On 18.03.2011, at 15:55, Mark Levin wrote:
>
>> Sean Stephens wrote:
>>
>>> There is also an upgrade path for those interested in moving back their lisences from 9 to 8.5 now that 9.0 is officially "finished".
>>
>> For those Lassoers who prepaid for an upgrade to L9 back in 2008 and, with all due respect, are still waiting for a "finished" product, the original terms of their licenses should remain unchanged. While I fully support the new business model going forward, it is not fair, and probably not lawful, to change the terms after payment was accepted.
>
>
> I also have a question about this which I can't seem to find an answer to on the new website or on this list so far. My apologies if this has already been answered, there has been an awful lot of discussion about the new licensing.
>
> We bought a brand new Lasso 9 license , which was bought under the previous "one license per server - unlimited instances" model. I run 4 instances of Lasso 9 on one server under this license, 2 of which are production sites and 2 are internal only.
>
> Where do we now stand, in terms of applying the latest L9 updates? If I apply the latest update, is my existing license going to break?
>
> Where do I then stand in terms of obtaining a current Lasso 9 license? Will I have to pay more, or will I get a new-style perpetual license for unlimited L9 instances? (which is what I paid for)
>
> Or is Lasso 9.0 dead now and the next version will be 9.X, with the new licensing model? In which case I am again faced with the prospect of having to upgrade just to get existing bugs fixed.
>
> --
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
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Re: Upgrades

Anibal Escobar
In reply to this post by Mark Levin

On Mar 18, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Mark Levin wrote:

> For those Lassoers who prepaid for an upgrade to L9 back in 2008  
> and, with all due respect, are still waiting for a "finished"  
> product, the original terms of their licenses should remain  
> unchanged. While I fully support the new business model going  
> forward, it is not fair, and probably not lawful, to change the  
> terms after payment was accepted.
>
> Lastly, I think that the "upgrade" to 8.6 should be offered as a  
> free stopgap to those of us that prepaid for L9, as I suspect that  
> most are only continuing to use 8.5 only because L9 is still not  
> "finished".


I agree that the licensing changes should be applied only to L9 and  
only to new purchases.  Under most scenarios, the new licensing means  
more expensive licenses, so for some extra money, Treefrog risks  
alienating its core users and making the success of Lasso less  
certain.  Personally, I think they'll make more money the other way.

Thanks,
Anibal Escobar




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Re: Upgrades

Bil Corry-3
Anibal Escobar wrote on 3/18/2011 8:17 AM:
> Under most scenarios, the new licensing means
> more expensive licenses, so for some extra money, Treefrog risks
> alienating its core users and making the success of Lasso less
> certain. Personally, I think they'll make more money the other way.

It's important to note that Treefrog has paid out a large sum of money to acquire Lasso and further develop LP8 and L9, AND continues to fund a sizable team (by Lasso standards) for its ongoing development.  Had Treefrog not done that, it's likely that we would be having an entirely different conversation now -- so for that I'm personally grateful.

As far as pricing and the new pricing model, Lasso has to be self-sustaining and have the proper resources in order to provide ongoing development, marketing, product support, etc, while also allowing Treefrog to recoup the capital paid up front to purchase Lasso.  The pricing reflects those realities -- as Deco's boss said, if you're purchasing a commercial product, it should work, have documentation and support.  Glad to see we're moving in that direction.


- Bil

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Re: Upgrades

decorior
I doubt there are making money either way right now :-)

On Mar 18, 2011, at 11:10 AM, Bil Corry wrote:

> Anibal Escobar wrote on 3/18/2011 8:17 AM:
>> Under most scenarios, the new licensing means
>> more expensive licenses, so for some extra money, Treefrog risks
>> alienating its core users and making the success of Lasso less
>> certain. Personally, I think they'll make more money the other way.
>
> It's important to note that Treefrog has paid out a large sum of money to acquire Lasso and further develop LP8 and L9, AND continues to fund a sizable team (by Lasso standards) for its ongoing development.  Had Treefrog not done that, it's likely that we would be having an entirely different conversation now -- so for that I'm personally grateful.
>
> As far as pricing and the new pricing model, Lasso has to be self-sustaining and have the proper resources in order to provide ongoing development, marketing, product support, etc, while also allowing Treefrog to recoup the capital paid up front to purchase Lasso.  The pricing reflects those realities -- as Deco's boss said, if you're purchasing a commercial product, it should work, have documentation and support.  Glad to see we're moving in that direction.
>
>
> - Bil
>
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12