Say it ain't so...

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Say it ain't so...

Peter D Bethke
Hello all,

I've been forced to work with Filemaker Server Adv 7 recently with LP  
8.1. I have a simple search to exclude records with the value of  
either "foo" or "bar" in the field "myfield". Simple search, right?  
Well if rumor has it, you can't search the same field for different  
values in the same inline with FMPSA7. Can this really be true?

So for example if I set my search params to (array: '-op' = 'neq',  
'job_type' = 'doctor', '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'lawyer'), in  
theory the search should return all records that do not equal  
"doctor" or "lawyer" in the field "job_type". If I execute the search  
(array: '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'doctor') I get the proper  
results. If I execute (array: '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'lawyer') I  
get the proper results. However, combining them gets _all_ the  
records, instead of filtering out both doctors and lawyers. Adding a  
'-OpLogical'='OR' or an '-OpLogical'='AND' before the search params  
makes no difference. Looking at the action_statement output from the  
connector looks like Lasso is passing FMSA the correct params.

Is this just a really big bug? If so, any chance the pinheads at FM  
have corrected it in FMP 8?

Peter

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Re: Say it ain't so...

stevepiercy
You are not alone:
<http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?id=157907>

Not sure which version Steffan has, but the problem sounds identical.

--steve


On Friday, January 20, 2006, [hidden email] (Peter D Bethke) pronounced:

>Hello all,
>
>I've been forced to work with Filemaker Server Adv 7 recently with LP  
>8.1. I have a simple search to exclude records with the value of  
>either "foo" or "bar" in the field "myfield". Simple search, right?  
>Well if rumor has it, you can't search the same field for different  
>values in the same inline with FMPSA7. Can this really be true?
>
>So for example if I set my search params to (array: '-op' = 'neq',  
>'job_type' = 'doctor', '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'lawyer'), in  
>theory the search should return all records that do not equal  
>"doctor" or "lawyer" in the field "job_type". If I execute the search  
>(array: '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'doctor') I get the proper  
>results. If I execute (array: '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'lawyer') I  
>get the proper results. However, combining them gets _all_ the  
>records, instead of filtering out both doctors and lawyers. Adding a  
>'-OpLogical'='OR' or an '-OpLogical'='AND' before the search params  
>makes no difference. Looking at the action_statement output from the  
>connector looks like Lasso is passing FMSA the correct params.
>
>Is this just a really big bug? If so, any chance the pinheads at FM  
>have corrected it in FMP 8?
>
>Peter
>
>============================================
>Attend the Lasso Summit
>February 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
>http://www.LassoSummit.com/
>============================================
>
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<[hidden email]>                   <http://www.StevePiercy.com>

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Re: Say it ain't so...

Adam Randall-4
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
They know about the issue, and will likely never resolve it. The only  
work around that I know of is to create calculations to duplicate the  
field, or use some type of field level search (like 0...100 for  
numbers).

Adam.

--
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Senior Web Architect
Stork Avenue, Inc.
http://www.storkavenue.com/
(800) 861-5437
AIM/iChat: blitz574



On Jan 20, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I've been forced to work with Filemaker Server Adv 7 recently with  
> LP 8.1. I have a simple search to exclude records with the value of  
> either "foo" or "bar" in the field "myfield". Simple search, right?  
> Well if rumor has it, you can't search the same field for different  
> values in the same inline with FMPSA7. Can this really be true?
>
> So for example if I set my search params to (array: '-op' = 'neq',  
> 'job_type' = 'doctor', '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'lawyer'), in  
> theory the search should return all records that do not equal  
> "doctor" or "lawyer" in the field "job_type". If I execute the  
> search (array: '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' = 'doctor') I get the  
> proper results. If I execute (array: '-op' = 'neq', 'job_type' =  
> 'lawyer') I get the proper results. However, combining them gets  
> _all_ the records, instead of filtering out both doctors and  
> lawyers. Adding a '-OpLogical'='OR' or an '-OpLogical'='AND' before  
> the search params makes no difference. Looking at the  
> action_statement output from the connector looks like Lasso is  
> passing FMSA the correct params.
>
> Is this just a really big bug? If so, any chance the pinheads at FM  
> have corrected it in FMP 8?
>
> Peter
>
> ============================================
> Attend the Lasso SummitFebruary 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
> ============================================
>
> --
> ------------------------------
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> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
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Re: Say it ain't so...

Simon Forster
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke

On 20 Jan 2006, at 16:53, Adam Randall wrote:

> They know about the issue, and will likely never resolve it. The  
> only work around that I know of is to create calculations to  
> duplicate the field, or use some type of field level search (like  
> 0...100 for numbers).

And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.  
Unreal isn't it?

Simon Forster
_______________________________________________________
  LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK
  Tel: +44 (0)845 257 6086   Fax: +44 (0)70 9230 5247
_______________________________________________________



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Re: Say it ain't so...

m i l e s-4
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
All,

 >And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.  
Unreal isn't it?

REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.

M i l e s.

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Re: Say it ain't so...

John May-2
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
>All,
>
>>And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.
>>Unreal isn't it?
>
>REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.
>
>M i l e s.


Miles -

FileMaker has a number of features that many folks couldn't do
without if they made the move to MySQL.  It's much more constructive
to try to get problems such as this solved, as not everyone can just
ditch FM that easily due to these other features of it they are using.

FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since
FileMaker 7 and later.  If folks really want this issue solved, they
should submit a report at:

        <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>

The more people that complain, the better.

        - John

--

-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Point In Space Internet Solutions             [hidden email]

       Professional Lasso / PHP / MySQL / FileMaker Pro Hosting


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Re: Say it ain't so...

Adam Randall-4
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
Problem is, in their eyes, this is not a bug, but a limitation of  
their request architecture. To change it would break a lot of  
existing solutions as they are now, and I would be surprised if they  
ever consider changing it. I'm not sure how they forgot how the field  
search operators worked, but having each field have only one search  
operation is rather flawed.

While FMI may be receptive with FMP/FMD, FMSA is pretty closed.

Adam.

--
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Senior Web Architect
Stork Avenue, Inc.
http://www.storkavenue.com/
(800) 861-5437
AIM/iChat: blitz574



On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:59 PM, John May wrote:

>> All,
>>
>>> And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.  
>>> Unreal isn't it?
>>
>> REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.
>>
>> M i l e s.
>
>
> Miles -
>
> FileMaker has a number of features that many folks couldn't do  
> without if they made the move to MySQL.  It's much more  
> constructive to try to get problems such as this solved, as not  
> everyone can just ditch FM that easily due to these other features  
> of it they are using.
>
> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since  
> FileMaker 7 and later.  If folks really want this issue solved,  
> they should submit a report at:
>
> <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>
> The more people that complain, the better.
>
> - John
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> John May : President                  <http://www.pointinspace.com>
> Point In Space Internet Solutions             [hidden email]
>
>       Professional Lasso / PHP / MySQL / FileMaker Pro Hosting
>
>
> ============================================
> Attend the Lasso Summit February 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
> ============================================
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
> Manage your list subscription:  http://www.listsearch.com/ 
> lassotalk.lasso?manage


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Re: Say it ain't so...

Bil Corry
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
> To change it would break a lot of  
> existing solutions as they are now

A better solution would be if they supported SQL queries.



- Bil

------

Bil Corry
[hidden email]

Enterprise internet application development and security consulting
  http://www.fivegeeks.com/

Tools for Rapid Lasso Development
  http://www.lassoware.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Adam Randall
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:11 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so...

Problem is, in their eyes, this is not a bug, but a limitation of  
their request architecture. To change it would break a lot of  
existing solutions as they are now, and I would be surprised if they  
ever consider changing it. I'm not sure how they forgot how the field  
search operators worked, but having each field have only one search  
operation is rather flawed.

While FMI may be receptive with FMP/FMD, FMSA is pretty closed.

Adam.

--
Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
Senior Web Architect
Stork Avenue, Inc.
http://www.storkavenue.com/
(800) 861-5437
AIM/iChat: blitz574



On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:59 PM, John May wrote:

>> All,
>>
>>> And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.  
>>> Unreal isn't it?
>>
>> REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.
>>
>> M i l e s.
>
>
> Miles -
>
> FileMaker has a number of features that many folks couldn't do  
> without if they made the move to MySQL.  It's much more  
> constructive to try to get problems such as this solved, as not  
> everyone can just ditch FM that easily due to these other features  
> of it they are using.
>
> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since  
> FileMaker 7 and later.  If folks really want this issue solved,  
> they should submit a report at:
>
> <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>
> The more people that complain, the better.
>
> - John




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http://www.LassoSummit.com/
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Re: Say it ain't so...

Thomas Waters
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
This isn't my experience with FMI at all.  I find people "on the  
inside" that I talk to, are no more open or closed about any one  
product or another. In fact, I've found folks involved with the XML  
stuff to be really interested in talking about how it all works, why  
and how it needs to continue to evolve.

I'm with John 100%.  If you want FMI to change something request it-  
show why it is important- how the change would impact the use.

On Jan 20, 2006, at 2:11 PM, Adam Randall wrote:

> Problem is, in their eyes, this is not a bug, but a limitation of  
> their request architecture. To change it would break a lot of  
> existing solutions as they are now, and I would be surprised if  
> they ever consider changing it. I'm not sure how they forgot how  
> the field search operators worked, but having each field have only  
> one search operation is rather flawed.
>
> While FMI may be receptive with FMP/FMD, FMSA is pretty closed.
>
> Adam.
>
> --
> Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
> Senior Web Architect
> Stork Avenue, Inc.
> http://www.storkavenue.com/
> (800) 861-5437
> AIM/iChat: blitz574
>
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:59 PM, John May wrote:
>
>>> All,
>>>
>>>> And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.  
>>>> Unreal isn't it?
>>>
>>> REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.
>>>
>>> M i l e s.
>>
>>
>> Miles -
>>
>> FileMaker has a number of features that many folks couldn't do  
>> without if they made the move to MySQL.  It's much more  
>> constructive to try to get problems such as this solved, as not  
>> everyone can just ditch FM that easily due to these other features  
>> of it they are using.
>>
>> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since  
>> FileMaker 7 and later.  If folks really want this issue solved,  
>> they should submit a report at:
>>
>> <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>>
>> The more people that complain, the better.
>>
>> - John
>>
>> --
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> John May : President                  <http://www.pointinspace.com>
>> Point In Space Internet Solutions             [hidden email]
>>
>>       Professional Lasso / PHP / MySQL / FileMaker Pro Hosting
>>
>>
>> ============================================
>> Attend the Lasso Summit February 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
>> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
>> ============================================
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>> Manage your list subscription:  http://www.listsearch.com/ 
>> lassotalk.lasso?manage
>
>
> ============================================
> Attend the Lasso SummitFebruary 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
> ============================================
>
> --
> ------------------------------
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Re: Say it ain't so...

Clive Bruton
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke

On 20 Jan 2006, at 18:59, John May wrote:

> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since  
> FileMaker 7 and later.

Well, I don't know, they don't seem to want to fix bugs that are long-
standing, let alone introduce new features. If you have a MacOS X  
version of FM (5.x+), try this:

        Print, select the pop-up for Filemaker features, set to
        print records being browsed, go back to the main
        print dialogue, select some range of records to
        print from the middle of the record range...

What do you think you get?

If you print records 101-200... you get 100 blank pages, then it  
starts printing the 100 pages you really want.

A friend just installed v8.0 and he said it is still doing this. And  
this in an area FM is supposed to be strong, on the desktop.

Similarly, if you print 100 copies of one record it prints 100  
separate print jobs, which takes about three times as long to go  
through the printer then one print job.


-- Clive

============================================
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Re: Say it ain't so...

Marc Pope-3
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
I've suggested to FMI many times the ability to connect to MySQL as a
datasource (not for just importing data via ODBC.. But actually using MySQL
as a datasource). Imagine in the database definitions where instead of
adding a new table, you could select a remote MySQL database and see all the
tables just as if they were in FM! I know there might need to be a few less
features for those types of databases, but wow! I could build mini apps in
minutes..

Marc




On 1/20/06 1:59 PM, "John May" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>
> The more people that complain, the better.



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Re: Say it ain't so...

John May-2
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
>On 20 Jan 2006, at 18:59, John May wrote:
>
>>FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since
>>FileMaker 7 and later.
>
>Well, I don't know, they don't seem to want to fix bugs that are
>long-standing, let alone introduce new features. If you have a MacOS
>X version of FM (5.x+), try this:
>
> Print, select the pop-up for Filemaker features, set to
> print records being browsed, go back to the main
> print dialogue, select some range of records to
> print from the middle of the record range...
>
>What do you think you get?
>
>If you print records 101-200... you get 100 blank pages, then it
>starts printing the 100 pages you really want.
>
>A friend just installed v8.0 and he said it is still doing this. And
>this in an area FM is supposed to be strong, on the desktop.
>
>Similarly, if you print 100 copies of one record it prints 100
>separate print jobs, which takes about three times as long to go
>through the printer then one print job.
>
>-- Clive


OK, well, my point was that FileMaker is a perfectly "viable
database" for use with Lasso and on the web.  Just writing it off
when there is a bug found is not exactly constructive, and many folks
have different applications than others where they can't just switch
to MySQL.

Now, if all you're using it as is a datasource, and the database
administrator can handle more advanced tools that the FileMaker GUI,
by all means I would suggest switching to MySQL if the need for
enhanced performance exists and budget to do so is there.

        - John

--

-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Point In Space Internet Solutions             [hidden email]

       Professional Lasso / PHP / MySQL / FileMaker Pro Hosting


============================================
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Re: Say it ain't so...

CANHR M.I.S.
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke

Wow. Can we take a vote on that?   ;-)

I'd wear a button or carry a picket sign for that...  seriously.

I think I'll put that on the top of my FMP list, even above
long-standing embarrassments such as the inability to group scripts
and layouts into folders (which behave as side-menus from the
menu-bar and layouts menu) and the ability to move them many at a
time...


>I've suggested to FMI many times the ability to connect to MySQL as a
>datasource (not for just importing data via ODBC.. But actually using MySQL
>as a datasource). Imagine in the database definitions where instead of
>adding a new table, you could select a remote MySQL database and see all the
>tables just as if they were in FM! I know there might need to be a few less
>features for those types of databases, but wow! I could build mini apps in
>minutes..
>
>Marc
>
>
>
>
>On 1/20/06 1:59 PM, "John May" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>>
>  > The more people that complain, the better.

--

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Re: Say it ain't so...

Nick Chapin
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
It ain't so. Sorry, Clive, I just gotta chime in here. Although I too  
prefer MySQL for Lasso work, I have to set the record straight on  
FileMaker. I just tested FMA8v2 and it prints as expected, no blank  
pages, no separate print jobs.

Nick Chapin


On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Clive Bruton wrote:

>
> On 20 Jan 2006, at 18:59, John May wrote:
>
>> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since  
>> FileMaker 7 and later.
>
> Well, I don't know, they don't seem to want to fix bugs that are  
> long-standing, let alone introduce new features. If you have a  
> MacOS X version of FM (5.x+), try this:
>
> Print, select the pop-up for Filemaker features, set to
> print records being browsed, go back to the main
> print dialogue, select some range of records to
> print from the middle of the record range...
>
> What do you think you get?
>
> If you print records 101-200... you get 100 blank pages, then it  
> starts printing the 100 pages you really want.
>
> A friend just installed v8.0 and he said it is still doing this.  
> And this in an area FM is supposed to be strong, on the desktop.
>
> Similarly, if you print 100 copies of one record it prints 100  
> separate print jobs, which takes about three times as long to go  
> through the printer then one print job.
>
>
> -- Clive
>
> ============================================
> Attend the Lasso SummitFebruary 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
> ============================================
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
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Re: Say it ain't so...

Adam Randall-4
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
JDBC support is getting better in FMS, and that would be the end all  
solution to FMSA. Of course, at the same time, it removes FMSA from  
the equation too :P

Adam.

--
Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
Senior Web Architect
Stork Avenue, Inc.
http://www.storkavenue.com/
(800) 861-5437
AIM/iChat: blitz574



On Jan 20, 2006, at 2:19 PM, Bil Corry wrote:

>> To change it would break a lot of
>> existing solutions as they are now
>
> A better solution would be if they supported SQL queries.
>
>
>
> - Bil
>
> ------
>
> Bil Corry
> [hidden email]
>
> Enterprise internet application development and security consulting
>   http://www.fivegeeks.com/
>
> Tools for Rapid Lasso Development
>   http://www.lassoware.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]  
> On Behalf Of
> Adam Randall
> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:11 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Say it ain't so...
>
> Problem is, in their eyes, this is not a bug, but a limitation of
> their request architecture. To change it would break a lot of
> existing solutions as they are now, and I would be surprised if they
> ever consider changing it. I'm not sure how they forgot how the field
> search operators worked, but having each field have only one search
> operation is rather flawed.
>
> While FMI may be receptive with FMP/FMD, FMSA is pretty closed.
>
> Adam.
>
> --
> Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
> Senior Web Architect
> Stork Avenue, Inc.
> http://www.storkavenue.com/
> (800) 861-5437
> AIM/iChat: blitz574
>
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:59 PM, John May wrote:
>
>>> All,
>>>
>>>> And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.
>>>> Unreal isn't it?
>>>
>>> REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.
>>>
>>> M i l e s.
>>
>>
>> Miles -
>>
>> FileMaker has a number of features that many folks couldn't do
>> without if they made the move to MySQL.  It's much more
>> constructive to try to get problems such as this solved, as not
>> everyone can just ditch FM that easily due to these other features
>> of it they are using.
>>
>> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since
>> FileMaker 7 and later.  If folks really want this issue solved,
>> they should submit a report at:
>>
>> <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>>
>> The more people that complain, the better.
>>
>> - John
>
>
>
>
> ============================================
> Attend the Lasso Summit
> February 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
> ============================================
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
> Manage your list subscription:
> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage


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http://www.LassoSummit.com/
============================================

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Re: Say it ain't so...

Detlef Hebbel-2
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
I second John, be constructive:

http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html

FM has come a long way, still its not perfect for lots of you "real coders".
But for me and probably many others like me with that certain
"half-knowledge", FM has done great Jobs for me in putting smart little
solutions together which do a hell of a good job at my clients.

So folks, be constructive do not forget to go here:
http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html

...and tell them to get innovative.

If *YOU* have outgrown FileMaker, please stop the negative comments, it does
not help and really makes me feeling small.

Cheers from your the 'Coding Apprentice'.

Detlef


on 21/1/06 9:27 AM, Adam Randall at [hidden email] wrote:

> JDBC support is getting better in FMS, and that would be the end all
> solution to FMSA. Of course, at the same time, it removes FMSA from
> the equation too :P
>
> Adam.
>
> --
> Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
> Senior Web Architect
> Stork Avenue, Inc.
> http://www.storkavenue.com/
> (800) 861-5437
> AIM/iChat: blitz574
>
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2006, at 2:19 PM, Bil Corry wrote:
>
>>> To change it would break a lot of
>>> existing solutions as they are now
>>
>> A better solution would be if they supported SQL queries.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Bil
>>
>> ------
>>
>> Bil Corry
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> Enterprise internet application development and security consulting
>>   http://www.fivegeeks.com/
>>
>> Tools for Rapid Lasso Development
>>   http://www.lassoware.com/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> On Behalf Of
>> Adam Randall
>> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:11 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Say it ain't so...
>>
>> Problem is, in their eyes, this is not a bug, but a limitation of
>> their request architecture. To change it would break a lot of
>> existing solutions as they are now, and I would be surprised if they
>> ever consider changing it. I'm not sure how they forgot how the field
>> search operators worked, but having each field have only one search
>> operation is rather flawed.
>>
>> While FMI may be receptive with FMP/FMD, FMSA is pretty closed.
>>
>> Adam.
>>
>> --
>> Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
>> Senior Web Architect
>> Stork Avenue, Inc.
>> http://www.storkavenue.com/
>> (800) 861-5437
>> AIM/iChat: blitz574
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:59 PM, John May wrote:
>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>>> And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP 1,600.
>>>>> Unreal isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.
>>>>
>>>> M i l e s.
>>>
>>>
>>> Miles -
>>>
>>> FileMaker has a number of features that many folks couldn't do
>>> without if they made the move to MySQL.  It's much more
>>> constructive to try to get problems such as this solved, as not
>>> everyone can just ditch FM that easily due to these other features
>>> of it they are using.
>>>
>>> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since
>>> FileMaker 7 and later.  If folks really want this issue solved,
>>> they should submit a report at:
>>>
>>> <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>>>
>>> The more people that complain, the better.
>>>
>>> - John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================
>> Attend the Lasso Summit
>> February 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
>> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
>> ============================================
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>> Manage your list subscription:
>> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage
>
>
> ============================================
> Attend the Lasso Summit
> February 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
> ============================================



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Re: Say it ain't so...

bfr00
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
> I've suggested to FMI many times the ability to connect to MySQL as a
> datasource (not for just importing data via ODBC.. But actually using MySQL
> as a datasource).

And if you've listened to recent podcasts talking to FMI executives, you've
heard them declare that's coming.


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Re: Say it ain't so...

bfr00
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
> Similarly, if you print 100 copies of one record it prints 100
> separate print jobs, which takes about three times as long to go
> through the printer then one print job.

It ain't so.


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Re: Say it ain't so...

Adam Randall-4
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
Their XML group is different than the way that the server accepts  
input. This has nothing to do with XML itself, that's an end result.  
Instead, this is how the database handles the database request. I  
dealt with one of the senior developers of FMSA, and drove home what  
their change meant to users of Lasso. There response was basically  
"oh, we didn't know you could do that in the web companion..." and  
"Well, we can't change it now as it would break everything".

There are outstanding bugs that were reported to FMI from OP, by me  
when that was my role with OP. My feeling is that those issues will  
never be resolved due to backwards compatibility. It's the same  
dilemma OP has when fixing things. It is unfortunate that FMSA  
development team itself did not know everything about the web  
companion from 6 and below when they made 7. A shame really.

If anyone is curious, another thing that is missing in FMSA that the  
WC had, it is that you could specify the fields to return from the  
query, instead of all the fields in the db/table. You can of course  
use a response layout, but it's kind of limiting.

Now, I'm sure that if they could fix it, they would, but it feels  
more like they've painted themselves into a corner. I wouldn't be  
surprised that we don't see this resolved until they do a major  
overhaul of the system, like that of 6 to 7.

Adam.


--
Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
Senior Web Architect
Stork Avenue, Inc.
http://www.storkavenue.com/
(800) 861-5437
AIM/iChat: blitz574



On Jan 20, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Thomas Waters wrote:

> This isn't my experience with FMI at all.  I find people "on the  
> inside" that I talk to, are no more open or closed about any one  
> product or another. In fact, I've found folks involved with the XML  
> stuff to be really interested in talking about how it all works,  
> why and how it needs to continue to evolve.
>
> I'm with John 100%.  If you want FMI to change something request  
> it- show why it is important- how the change would impact the use.
>
> On Jan 20, 2006, at 2:11 PM, Adam Randall wrote:
>
>> Problem is, in their eyes, this is not a bug, but a limitation of  
>> their request architecture. To change it would break a lot of  
>> existing solutions as they are now, and I would be surprised if  
>> they ever consider changing it. I'm not sure how they forgot how  
>> the field search operators worked, but having each field have only  
>> one search operation is rather flawed.
>>
>> While FMI may be receptive with FMP/FMD, FMSA is pretty closed.
>>
>> Adam.
>>
>> --
>> Adam Randall <[hidden email]>
>> Senior Web Architect
>> Stork Avenue, Inc.
>> http://www.storkavenue.com/
>> (800) 861-5437
>> AIM/iChat: blitz574
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2006, at 1:59 PM, John May wrote:
>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>>> And for this sort of behaviour you're expected to pay GBP  
>>>>> 1,600. Unreal isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> REASON # 5489 to DROP FILEMAKER AS A VIABLE DATABASE.
>>>>
>>>> M i l e s.
>>>
>>>
>>> Miles -
>>>
>>> FileMaker has a number of features that many folks couldn't do  
>>> without if they made the move to MySQL.  It's much more  
>>> constructive to try to get problems such as this solved, as not  
>>> everyone can just ditch FM that easily due to these other  
>>> features of it they are using.
>>>
>>> FMI has become MUCH more receptive to input and suggestions since  
>>> FileMaker 7 and later.  If folks really want this issue solved,  
>>> they should submit a report at:
>>>
>>> <http://www.filemaker.com/company/feature_request.html>
>>>
>>> The more people that complain, the better.
>>>
>>> - John
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> John May : President                  <http://www.pointinspace.com>
>>> Point In Space Internet Solutions             [hidden email]
>>>
>>>       Professional Lasso / PHP / MySQL / FileMaker Pro Hosting
>>>
>>>
>>> ============================================
>>> Attend the Lasso Summit February 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
>>> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
>>> ============================================
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>>> Manage your list subscription:  http://www.listsearch.com/ 
>>> lassotalk.lasso?manage
>>
>>
>> ============================================
>> Attend the Lasso SummitFebruary 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
>> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
>> ============================================
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>> Manage your list subscription: http://www.listsearch.com/ 
>> lassotalk.lasso?manage
>
>
> ============================================
> Attend the Lasso SummitFebruary 17-19, 2006 in Fort Lauderdale, FL
> http://www.LassoSummit.com/
> ============================================
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
> Manage your list subscription: http://www.listsearch.com/ 
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Re: Say it ain't so...

m i l e s-4
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
 >OK, well, my point was that FileMaker is a perfectly "viable  
database" for use with Lasso and on the web.
 >Just writing it off when there is a bug found is not exactly  
constructive, and many folks have
 >different applications than others where they can't just switch to  
MySQL.

John,

I can't believe *YOU* of all people are actually *DEFENDING* FMI.

(stands in disgust)

First things first, Im not writing it off...you went a lil too far  
with that one.  Its not viable as a solution for a lot of us.  And  
more are leaving the platform every day when they see the simple  
speed test comparison.  Its like night and day.  How can you defend  
against a db that's open source, (nearly) free, and so simple they  
even teach classes about it at colleges across the country ?  Not  
Filemaker...SQL!  Its the bomb for a reason.

Oh and as to FMI stating that they're 'going' to connect to a SQL  
backend.  Scroll back a bit.  FMI promised that lil toy with FMP7.  
Note that we've gone through 2 iterations since then and they've YET  
to produce said toy that was supposed to be the engine of FMP7, and I  
can virtually guarantee you that said lil toy will be 'just down the  
road', 'one more iteration' away...sorry FMI you've been to the well  
one time too often.  Again FMI is gouging its market for every dollar  
it can.  It doesn't listen to its developer group, their bread and  
butter, and it never will.  If it sounds like Ive given up on  
FMI...let me put it to you another way.  I started out on FMP.  One  
of FMP's greatest and staunchest supporters departed from the  
platform after 15 years this year.  She taught me everything I know.  
The reason she left ?  Because FMP is TOOO limited and their roadmap  
too small.  You don't chuck 15 yrs on FMP overnight.  She was very  
loud, very vocal, and very close to FMI.  And for her to  
walk...speaks VOLUMES to me.

Adam is right in what he says, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

M i l e s.


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