[OT] Google Open Sources VP8

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[OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Brian Loomis-3
<http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>

"Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora, stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8 on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."


Brian Loomis
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

bfr00
Already dead.

http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)

On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:

> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>
> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora, stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8 on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>
>
> Brian Loomis
> http://www.virtualrelations.us
> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
> -- email checked daily --


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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Brian Loomis-3
Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than ever.

On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:

> Already dead.
>
> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>
> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>
>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>
>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora, stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8 on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>
>>
>> Brian Loomis
>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>> -- email checked daily --
>
>
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Brian Loomis
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Göran Törnquist-2
I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this  
at the moment.

Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms.  
The target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of  
bandwidth, and several percents of storage, then they have  
accomplished a lot. Not to mention lesser license fees for patents.

/Göran Törnquist
Usertime
+46-733 860470

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread  
> I've read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more  
> confused than ever.
>
> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>
>> Already dead.
>>
>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>
>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>
>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source 
>>> >
>>>
>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,  
>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open  
>>> source VP8 on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of  
>>> a, "50 percent bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264  
>>> implementations."
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian Loomis
>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>> -- email checked daily --
>>
>>
>> --
>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>
>>
>
> Brian Loomis
> http://www.virtualrelations.us
> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
> -- email checked daily --
>
>
> --
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

jasonhuck
You're probably right in that the cost savings for YouTube alone could
be the primary financial motivator for Google, but Google aren't the
only ones waiting/hoping for a single video (and audio for that
matter) codec across all platforms.

Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
standard for HTML 5 video.

Now *all* of the other major browser vendors (Microsoft, Mozilla,
Opera, and Google), have pledged to support WebM (which includes VP8)
in their browsers, and Adobe will be adding support for it in Flash as
well. This means that all modern browsers (except possibly Safari if
Apple chooses not to support it) will be able to play a single video
format natively, and Flash can be used as a legacy fallback.

h.264 might be better than VP8 right now (I suspect VP8 will improve
rapidly), but h.264 is not truly open, and it's not universally
supported (nothing is, at the moment). Until there's a single format
supported by all the major browsers, HTML 5 video simply won't be a
practical alternative to Flash video. If Apple is truly committed to
an open web, they're going to have to add support for WebM to Safari,
at least on the desktop, and then eventually to their mobile platforms
once hardware acceleration makes it into the spec.

To me, this is all great, welcome news. I just hope that Apple decides
to join the party.

- jason




2010/5/20 Göran Törnquist <[hidden email]>:

> I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this at
> the moment.
>
> Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms. The
> target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of bandwidth, and
> several percents of storage, then they have accomplished a lot. Not to
> mention lesser license fees for patents.
>
> /Göran Törnquist
> Usertime
> +46-733 860470
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've
>> read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than
>> ever.
>>
>> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>
>>> Already dead.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>>
>>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>>>
>>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,
>>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8
>>>> on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent
>>>> bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Brian Loomis
>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>> -- email checked daily --
>>
>>
>> --
>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Brad Lindsay-2
On May 20, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Jason Huck wrote:
> Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
> increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
> the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
> standard for HTML 5 video.

Just a quick note in a post that I otherwise agree with — Apple doesn't own H.264, so it's not like Apple is pushing its proprietary video format against Adobe's proprietary Flash format.

Also, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that MPEG LA (those who own H.264) will eventually file a patent infringement suit against WebM.

Brad
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Trevor Jacques
I found this was a really good summary of what's going on. It shows that, at this point, Apple's really quite neutral wrt H.264. The history is actually important:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/05/19/x264_developer_says_googles_new_vp8_webm_codec_is_a_mess.html

HTH,

T.
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Mark Palmer
In reply to this post by jasonhuck
Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.be.in.trouble.with.webm/

On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:

> You're probably right in that the cost savings for YouTube alone could
> be the primary financial motivator for Google, but Google aren't the
> only ones waiting/hoping for a single video (and audio for that
> matter) codec across all platforms.
>
> Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
> increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
> the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
> standard for HTML 5 video.
>
> Now *all* of the other major browser vendors (Microsoft, Mozilla,
> Opera, and Google), have pledged to support WebM (which includes VP8)
> in their browsers, and Adobe will be adding support for it in Flash as
> well. This means that all modern browsers (except possibly Safari if
> Apple chooses not to support it) will be able to play a single video
> format natively, and Flash can be used as a legacy fallback.
>
> h.264 might be better than VP8 right now (I suspect VP8 will improve
> rapidly), but h.264 is not truly open, and it's not universally
> supported (nothing is, at the moment). Until there's a single format
> supported by all the major browsers, HTML 5 video simply won't be a
> practical alternative to Flash video. If Apple is truly committed to
> an open web, they're going to have to add support for WebM to Safari,
> at least on the desktop, and then eventually to their mobile platforms
> once hardware acceleration makes it into the spec.
>
> To me, this is all great, welcome news. I just hope that Apple decides
> to join the party.
>
> - jason
>
>
>
>
> 2010/5/20 Göran Törnquist <[hidden email]>:
>> I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this at
>> the moment.
>>
>> Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms. The
>> target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of bandwidth, and
>> several percents of storage, then they have accomplished a lot. Not to
>> mention lesser license fees for patents.
>>
>> /Göran Törnquist
>> Usertime
>> +46-733 860470
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've
>>> read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than
>>> ever.
>>>
>>> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Already dead.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>>>
>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,
>>>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8
>>>>> on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent
>>>>> bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Brian Loomis
>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
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>>>
>>>
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>>> believed to be clean.
>>>
>>
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Mark Palmer
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

jasonhuck
I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.

JLH



On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.be.in.trouble.with.webm/
>
> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>
>> You're probably right in that the cost savings for YouTube alone could
>> be the primary financial motivator for Google, but Google aren't the
>> only ones waiting/hoping for a single video (and audio for that
>> matter) codec across all platforms.
>>
>> Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
>> increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
>> the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
>> standard for HTML 5 video.
>>
>> Now *all* of the other major browser vendors (Microsoft, Mozilla,
>> Opera, and Google), have pledged to support WebM (which includes VP8)
>> in their browsers, and Adobe will be adding support for it in Flash as
>> well. This means that all modern browsers (except possibly Safari if
>> Apple chooses not to support it) will be able to play a single video
>> format natively, and Flash can be used as a legacy fallback.
>>
>> h.264 might be better than VP8 right now (I suspect VP8 will improve
>> rapidly), but h.264 is not truly open, and it's not universally
>> supported (nothing is, at the moment). Until there's a single format
>> supported by all the major browsers, HTML 5 video simply won't be a
>> practical alternative to Flash video. If Apple is truly committed to
>> an open web, they're going to have to add support for WebM to Safari,
>> at least on the desktop, and then eventually to their mobile platforms
>> once hardware acceleration makes it into the spec.
>>
>> To me, this is all great, welcome news. I just hope that Apple decides
>> to join the party.
>>
>> - jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/5/20 Göran Törnquist <[hidden email]>:
>>> I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this at
>>> the moment.
>>>
>>> Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms. The
>>> target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of bandwidth, and
>>> several percents of storage, then they have accomplished a lot. Not to
>>> mention lesser license fees for patents.
>>>
>>> /Göran Törnquist
>>> Usertime
>>> +46-733 860470
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've
>>>> read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than
>>>> ever.
>>>>
>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Already dead.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,
>>>>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8
>>>>>> on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent
>>>>>> bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>>> believed to be clean.
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
> Regards
>
> Mark Palmer
> E: [hidden email]
> T: 01902 620500
> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Mark Palmer
Perhaps one of us should email Steve Jobs and ask him, but I think one would will need to be drunk first. :)

On 20 May 2010, at 15:11, Jason Huck wrote:

> I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
> opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
> I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
> honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
> Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.
>
> JLH
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
>> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.be.in.trouble.with.webm/
>>
>> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>>
>>> You're probably right in that the cost savings for YouTube alone could
>>> be the primary financial motivator for Google, but Google aren't the
>>> only ones waiting/hoping for a single video (and audio for that
>>> matter) codec across all platforms.
>>>
>>> Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
>>> increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
>>> the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
>>> standard for HTML 5 video.
>>>
>>> Now *all* of the other major browser vendors (Microsoft, Mozilla,
>>> Opera, and Google), have pledged to support WebM (which includes VP8)
>>> in their browsers, and Adobe will be adding support for it in Flash as
>>> well. This means that all modern browsers (except possibly Safari if
>>> Apple chooses not to support it) will be able to play a single video
>>> format natively, and Flash can be used as a legacy fallback.
>>>
>>> h.264 might be better than VP8 right now (I suspect VP8 will improve
>>> rapidly), but h.264 is not truly open, and it's not universally
>>> supported (nothing is, at the moment). Until there's a single format
>>> supported by all the major browsers, HTML 5 video simply won't be a
>>> practical alternative to Flash video. If Apple is truly committed to
>>> an open web, they're going to have to add support for WebM to Safari,
>>> at least on the desktop, and then eventually to their mobile platforms
>>> once hardware acceleration makes it into the spec.
>>>
>>> To me, this is all great, welcome news. I just hope that Apple decides
>>> to join the party.
>>>
>>> - jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/5/20 Göran Törnquist <[hidden email]>:
>>>> I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this at
>>>> the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms. The
>>>> target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of bandwidth, and
>>>> several percents of storage, then they have accomplished a lot. Not to
>>>> mention lesser license fees for patents.
>>>>
>>>> /Göran Törnquist
>>>> Usertime
>>>> +46-733 860470
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've
>>>>> read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than
>>>>> ever.
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Already dead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,
>>>>>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8
>>>>>>> on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent
>>>>>>> bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>>>> believed to be clean.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>>> believed to be clean.
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>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Palmer
>> E: [hidden email]
>> T: 01902 620500
>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

jasonhuck
Haha! I read that one, too!

- jason




On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Mark Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Perhaps one of us should email Steve Jobs and ask him, but I think one would will need to be drunk first. :)
>
> On 20 May 2010, at 15:11, Jason Huck wrote:
>
>> I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
>> opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
>> I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
>> honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
>> Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.
>>
>> JLH
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
>>> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.be.in.trouble.with.webm/
>>>
>>> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're probably right in that the cost savings for YouTube alone could
>>>> be the primary financial motivator for Google, but Google aren't the
>>>> only ones waiting/hoping for a single video (and audio for that
>>>> matter) codec across all platforms.
>>>>
>>>> Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
>>>> increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
>>>> the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
>>>> standard for HTML 5 video.
>>>>
>>>> Now *all* of the other major browser vendors (Microsoft, Mozilla,
>>>> Opera, and Google), have pledged to support WebM (which includes VP8)
>>>> in their browsers, and Adobe will be adding support for it in Flash as
>>>> well. This means that all modern browsers (except possibly Safari if
>>>> Apple chooses not to support it) will be able to play a single video
>>>> format natively, and Flash can be used as a legacy fallback.
>>>>
>>>> h.264 might be better than VP8 right now (I suspect VP8 will improve
>>>> rapidly), but h.264 is not truly open, and it's not universally
>>>> supported (nothing is, at the moment). Until there's a single format
>>>> supported by all the major browsers, HTML 5 video simply won't be a
>>>> practical alternative to Flash video. If Apple is truly committed to
>>>> an open web, they're going to have to add support for WebM to Safari,
>>>> at least on the desktop, and then eventually to their mobile platforms
>>>> once hardware acceleration makes it into the spec.
>>>>
>>>> To me, this is all great, welcome news. I just hope that Apple decides
>>>> to join the party.
>>>>
>>>> - jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2010/5/20 Göran Törnquist <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this at
>>>>> the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms. The
>>>>> target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of bandwidth, and
>>>>> several percents of storage, then they have accomplished a lot. Not to
>>>>> mention lesser license fees for patents.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Göran Törnquist
>>>>> Usertime
>>>>> +46-733 860470
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've
>>>>>> read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than
>>>>>> ever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Already dead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,
>>>>>>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8
>>>>>>>> on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent
>>>>>>>> bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>>>>> believed to be clean.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>>>> believed to be clean.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mark Palmer
>>> E: [hidden email]
>>> T: 01902 620500
>>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Palmer
> E: [hidden email]
> T: 01902 620500
> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>
>
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Jonathan Vanherpe (T & T NV)
In reply to this post by Mark Palmer
provided ofcourse he finds it between all the crap he gets. I personally
must've signed him up for the Apple newsletter at least 10 times hoping
he'd get the hint and stop asking for our e-mail address when we want to
download quicktime.

Jonathan

Mark Palmer wrote:

> Perhaps one of us should email Steve Jobs and ask him, but I think one would will need to be drunk first. :)
>
> On 20 May 2010, at 15:11, Jason Huck wrote:
>
>> I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
>> opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
>> I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
>> honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
>> Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.
>>
>> JLH
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
>>> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.be.in.trouble.with.webm/
>>>
>>> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mark Palmer
>>> E: [hidden email]
>>> T: 01902 620500
>>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> <http://tagSwap.net/>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Palmer
> E: [hidden email]
> T: 01902 620500
> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Johan Solve
The default Mail.app rule can almost take care of that, he just have
to change it to "bounce message". Did you get any?

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Jonathan Vanherpe (T & T nv)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> provided ofcourse he finds it between all the crap he gets. I personally
> must've signed him up for the Apple newsletter at least 10 times hoping he'd
> get the hint and stop asking for our e-mail address when we want to download
> quicktime.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Mark Palmer wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps one of us should email Steve Jobs and ask him, but I think one
>> would will need to be drunk first. :)
>>
>> On 20 May 2010, at 15:11, Jason Huck wrote:
>>
>>> I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
>>> opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
>>> I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
>>> honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
>>> Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.
>>>
>>> JLH
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer<[hidden email]>
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.be.in.trouble.with.webm/
>>>>
>>>> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mark Palmer
>>>> E: [hidden email]
>>>> T: 01902 620500
>>>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> <http://tagSwap.net/>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Palmer
>> E: [hidden email]
>> T: 01902 620500
>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>
>>
>> --
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Johan Sölve
Mobil +46 709-51 55 70
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

bfr00
In reply to this post by jasonhuck
To be more accurate, your imagination about their PR has left a bad taste in your mouth.

There's always soap or bleach if you're into home remedies.

Bruce Robertson

On May 20, 2010, at 7:11 AM, Jason Huck wrote:

> I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
> opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
> I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
> honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
> Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.
>
> JLH
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
>> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.bein.trouble.with.webm/
>>
>> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>>
>>> You're probably right in that the cost savings for YouTube alone could
>>> be the primary financial motivator for Google, but Google aren't the
>>> only ones waiting/hoping for a single video (and audio for that
>>> matter) codec across all platforms.
>>>
>>> Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
>>> increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
>>> the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
>>> standard for HTML 5 video.
>>>
>>> Now *all* of the other major browser vendors (Microsoft, Mozilla,
>>> Opera, and Google), have pledged to support WebM (which includes VP8)
>>> in their browsers, and Adobe will be adding support for it in Flash as
>>> well. This means that all modern browsers (except possibly Safari if
>>> Apple chooses not to support it) will be able to play a single video
>>> format natively, and Flash can be used as a legacy fallback.
>>>
>>> h.264 might be better than VP8 right now (I suspect VP8 will improve
>>> rapidly), but h.264 is not truly open, and it's not universally
>>> supported (nothing is, at the moment). Until there's a single format
>>> supported by all the major browsers, HTML 5 video simply won't be a
>>> practical alternative to Flash video. If Apple is truly committed to
>>> an open web, they're going to have to add support for WebM to Safari,
>>> at least on the desktop, and then eventually to their mobile platforms
>>> once hardware acceleration makes it into the spec.
>>>
>>> To me, this is all great, welcome news. I just hope that Apple decides
>>> to join the party.
>>>
>>> - jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2010/5/20 Göran Törnquist <[hidden email]>:
>>>> I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this at
>>>> the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms. The
>>>> target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of bandwidth, and
>>>> several percents of storage, then they have accomplished a lot. Not to
>>>> mention lesser license fees for patents.
>>>>
>>>> /Göran Törnquist
>>>> Usertime
>>>> +46-733 860470
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've
>>>>> read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than
>>>>> ever.
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Already dead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,
>>>>>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8
>>>>>>> on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent
>>>>>>> bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>>>>> believed to be clean.
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Palmer
>> E: [hidden email]
>> T: 01902 620500
>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

jasonhuck
It's a little bit more than just my imagination (and I'm a long-time
Apple fan), but I guess it must be time to end this thread since
hackles are being raised.

- Jason





On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Bruce Robertson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To be more accurate, your imagination about their PR has left a bad taste in your mouth.
>
> There's always soap or bleach if you're into home remedies.
>
> Bruce Robertson
>
> On May 20, 2010, at 7:11 AM, Jason Huck wrote:
>
>> I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
>> opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
>> I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
>> honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
>> Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.
>>
>> JLH
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
>>> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.bein.trouble.with.webm/
>>>
>>> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're probably right in that the cost savings for YouTube alone could
>>>> be the primary financial motivator for Google, but Google aren't the
>>>> only ones waiting/hoping for a single video (and audio for that
>>>> matter) codec across all platforms.
>>>>
>>>> Apple, in their incessant pissing match with Adobe, have been
>>>> increasingly preachy lately about supporting open web standards, all
>>>> the while trying to get their own h.264 to become the de facto
>>>> standard for HTML 5 video.
>>>>
>>>> Now *all* of the other major browser vendors (Microsoft, Mozilla,
>>>> Opera, and Google), have pledged to support WebM (which includes VP8)
>>>> in their browsers, and Adobe will be adding support for it in Flash as
>>>> well. This means that all modern browsers (except possibly Safari if
>>>> Apple chooses not to support it) will be able to play a single video
>>>> format natively, and Flash can be used as a legacy fallback.
>>>>
>>>> h.264 might be better than VP8 right now (I suspect VP8 will improve
>>>> rapidly), but h.264 is not truly open, and it's not universally
>>>> supported (nothing is, at the moment). Until there's a single format
>>>> supported by all the major browsers, HTML 5 video simply won't be a
>>>> practical alternative to Flash video. If Apple is truly committed to
>>>> an open web, they're going to have to add support for WebM to Safari,
>>>> at least on the desktop, and then eventually to their mobile platforms
>>>> once hardware acceleration makes it into the spec.
>>>>
>>>> To me, this is all great, welcome news. I just hope that Apple decides
>>>> to join the party.
>>>>
>>>> - jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2010/5/20 Göran Törnquist <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> I read it all. Review, comments and all. I think it boils down to this at
>>>>> the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Google is looking for one replacement video codec for all platforms. The
>>>>> target seems to be YouTube. If they can save a few percent of bandwidth, and
>>>>> several percents of storage, then they have accomplished a lot. Not to
>>>>> mention lesser license fees for patents.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Göran Törnquist
>>>>> Usertime
>>>>> +46-733 860470
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 20, 2010, at 7:29 AM, Brian Loomis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, that has some of the best comments and follow ups of any thread I've
>>>>>> read lately.  I don't know whether to feel informed or more confused than
>>>>>> ever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Already dead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fsalimane+(Delicious)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Brian Loomis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://northtech.us/content/20100519/its-official-googles-vp8-goes-open-source>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Google, hedging its bets by supporting both H.264 and Ogg Theora,
>>>>>>>> stands to lose absolutely nothing, and yet they are going to open source VP8
>>>>>>>> on top of everything - which On2 claims is capable of a, "50 percent
>>>>>>>> bandwidth savings compared to leading H.264 implementations."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian Loomis
>>>>>> http://www.virtualrelations.us
>>>>>> (208) 639-2569 - 208 NEW BLOX
>>>>>> -- email checked daily --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mark Palmer
>>> E: [hidden email]
>>> T: 01902 620500
>>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>>
>>>
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Sidney San Martín-2
In reply to this post by Jonathan Vanherpe (T & T NV)
You realize that the download works just as well if you don't enter an email address, right ;) ?

On May 20, 2010, at 10:34, Jonathan Vanherpe (T & T nv) wrote:

> provided ofcourse he finds it between all the crap he gets. I personally must've signed him up for the Apple newsletter at least 10 times hoping he'd get the hint and stop asking for our e-mail address when we want to download quicktime.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Mark Palmer wrote:
>> Perhaps one of us should email Steve Jobs and ask him, but I think one would will need to be drunk first. :)
>>
>> On 20 May 2010, at 15:11, Jason Huck wrote:
>>
>>> I guess we'll see if other people come forward to corroborate the
>>> opinion of this one previously unknown blogger everyone's now quoting.
>>> I have a really hard time believing Apple's motives are quite so
>>> honest and pure as the "Apple"-Insider article wants to paint them.
>>> Their recent PR has left a bad taste in my mouth.
>>>
>>> JLH
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Mark Palmer<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>> Hasn't VP8 also got patent issues?
>>>> http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/05/19/google.mozilla.opera.may.be.in.trouble.with.webm/
>>>>
>>>> On 20 May 2010, at 14:41, Jason Huck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mark Palmer
>>>> E: [hidden email]
>>>> T: 01902 620500
>>>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Palmer
>> E: [hidden email]
>> T: 01902 620500
>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>
>>
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Re: [OT] Google Open Sources VP8

Jonathan Vanherpe (T & T NV)
I didn't ever feel like trying. Apple shouldn't even be asking for your
e-mail address in the first place if all you want is Quicktime.

They especially shouldn't try to install their crappy media player and
browser either when all you want is Quicktime. Good thing I don't use
Windows any more so I don't have to deal with Apple's shenanigans on
that platform.

Jonathan

Sidney San Martín wrote:

> You realize that the download works just as well if you don't enter an email address, right ;) ?
>
> On May 20, 2010, at 10:34, Jonathan Vanherpe (T&  T nv) wrote:
>
>> provided ofcourse he finds it between all the crap he gets. I personally must've signed him up for the Apple newsletter at least 10 times hoping he'd get the hint and stop asking for our e-mail address when we want to download quicktime.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> Mark Palmer wrote:
>>> Perhaps one of us should email Steve Jobs and ask him, but I think one would will need to be drunk first. :)
>>>
>>> On 20 May 2010, at 15:11, Jason Huck wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mark Palmer
>>> E: [hidden email]
>>> T: 01902 620500
>>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Vanherpe - Tallieu&  Tallieu nv - [hidden email]
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