OT: CSS based Lasso Site

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OT: CSS based Lasso Site

rdwyer
I have a site designed and laid out entirely in CCS.  It validates via  
W3C for both XML and CSS.  Looks great on Safari & FireFox.  Versions  
of Explorer however won't even render entire aspects of the page,  
making it essentially useless if you are using certain versions  of  
Explorer (and even versions that render it show considerable  
anomalies).  I am well aware of MS's disregard for basic standards,  
but how does a site like ESPN pull it off?  What tricks or tools can I  
use to tweak the site so it's CSS/XML compliant AND viewable in  
Explorer?

We have sales guys here with no technical knowledge of what's  
involved.  After months of laying out the site, it doesn't work on a  
few test computers running Explorer and in their infinite wisdom, they  
think the solution is to re-lay the whole thing out in plain HTML.

Help is appreciated.

Rick

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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

Trevor Jacques
>in their infinite wisdom, they think the solution is to re-lay the
>whole thing out in plain HTML.

I've found that even tables have their place. ;-)

CSS on sites I visit often produces differing results, depending on
how well the Divs are coded and the css specified, and which browser
I'm using. I've often found that a few carefully placed tables help
hold a page layout together. To see how bad the average web site is,
just try increasing font size a few times and watch how the page
you're viewing disintegrates. Even the 'biggies' like CNN have
problems with CSS working well with large/small monitors and
large/small font sizes. Arguably, it's the result of poor testing,
but it's often so easy to get around these problems with two or three
strategically placed tables.

For another example, little gets my goat more than a page that will
not stretch to fill my monitor (i.e. it has been set to a set width
of, say, 800 or 1024 pixels). Most blog sites seem to fall into that
category.

T.

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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

rdwyer
The problem is that I use the DIV function quite a bit because of its  
scroll function... no need for iFrames.

I could duplicate the sight, run it on my staging machine and replace  
aspects of it with straight forward HTML.  Disappointing as I spent  
several days getting everything to verify via W3C.  Oh well.

Rick

On Apr 10, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Trevor Jacques wrote:

>> in their infinite wisdom, they think the solution is to re-lay the  
>> whole thing out in plain HTML.
>
> I've found that even tables have their place. ;-)
>
> CSS on sites I visit often produces differing results, depending on  
> how well the Divs are coded and the css specified, and which browser  
> I'm using. I've often found that a few carefully placed tables help  
> hold a page layout together. To see how bad the average web site is,  
> just try increasing font size a few times and watch how the page  
> you're viewing disintegrates. Even the 'biggies' like CNN have  
> problems with CSS working well with large/small monitors and large/
> small font sizes. Arguably, it's the result of poor testing, but  
> it's often so easy to get around these problems with two or three  
> strategically placed tables.
>
> For another example, little gets my goat more than a page that will  
> not stretch to fill my monitor (i.e. it has been set to a set width  
> of, say, 800 or 1024 pixels). Most blog sites seem to fall into that  
> category.
>
> T.
>
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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

Trevor Jacques
>The problem is that I use the DIV function quite a bit because of
>its scroll function... no need for iFrames.

That's why I use a mix. The tables help for overall structure, but
also for tabular data. CSS handles the rest (i.e. stuff that likely
needs some form of inheritance to keep the page looking clean).

T.

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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

David Singleton-4
You can always call separate CSS pages depending on the browser.
Annoying, but that's what I have to do.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lasso Talk [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Trevor
Jacques
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:48 AM
To: Lasso Talk
Subject: Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

>The problem is that I use the DIV function quite a bit because of
>its scroll function... no need for iFrames.

That's why I use a mix. The tables help for overall structure, but
also for tabular data. CSS handles the rest (i.e. stuff that likely
needs some form of inheritance to keep the page looking clean).

T.

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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

jasonhuck
We have found this extremely useful in forcing IE to behave like a
real web browser:

http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/

- jason





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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

Bil Corry-3
Jason Huck wrote on 4/10/2008 10:56 AM:
> We have found this extremely useful in forcing IE to behave like a
> real web browser:
>
> http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/

I tried it a year and a half ago and had a variety of reports from users having problems - but they were using IE6 in Germany, so maybe it was a localization issue.


- Bil


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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

Jolle Carlestam-2
In reply to this post by rdwyer
I've settled on calling a separate css file for Explorer using the If  
syntax that only explorer understands. This keeps the site validated  
and takes care of IE problems without interfering with other browsers.

This is the code used:

In the head:
<!--[if IE]>
        <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="iespec.css" />
<![endif]-->

This is used in the body:
<!--[if IE]>
        <div id="IEroot">
<![endif]-->

all other code

<!--[if IE]>
        </div>
<![endif]-->

Read more here:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/ie7-dehacker.html

HDB
Jolle

10 apr 2008 kl. 16.01 skrev Rick Dwyer:

>
> I have a site designed and laid out entirely in CCS.  It validates  
> via W3C for both XML and CSS.  Looks great on Safari & FireFox.  
> Versions of Explorer however won't even render entire aspects of the  
> page, making it essentially useless if you are using certain  
> versions  of Explorer (and even versions that render it show  
> considerable anomalies).  I am well aware of MS's disregard for  
> basic standards, but how does a site like ESPN pull it off?  What  
> tricks or tools can I use to tweak the site so it's CSS/XML  
> compliant AND viewable in Explorer?
>
> We have sales guys here with no technical knowledge of what's  
> involved.  After months of laying out the site, it doesn't work on a  
> few test computers running Explorer and in their infinite wisdom,  
> they think the solution is to re-lay the whole thing out in plain  
> HTML.
>
> Help is appreciated.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>


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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

Marc Pinnell-3
I have been using a single CSS file, but doing some "hacks" at the  
bottom of the file to make IE work. And the sites validate fine with  
this. By watching the CSS as I build the sites, I have gotten it down  
to just a few "exceptions" which are usually just related to  
positioning and type size:

/* IE6 Only */
* html #MenuArea {
        padding-top: 20px;
        font-size: 1.2em;
        }
* html #MainCol {
        width: 680px;
        margin: 10px 0 10px 20px;
        }
       
/* IE7 Only */
*:first-child+html #MenuArea {
        padding-top: 20px;
        font-size: 1.2em;
        }
*:first-child+html #MainCol {
        width: 680px;
        }
       
Marc

On Apr 10, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Jolle Carlestam wrote:

> I've settled on calling a separate css file for Explorer using the  
> If syntax that only explorer understands. This keeps the site  
> validated and takes care of IE problems without interfering with  
> other browsers.
>
> This is the code used:
>
> In the head:
> <!--[if IE]>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="iespec.css" />
> <![endif]-->
>
> This is used in the body:
> <!--[if IE]>
> <div id="IEroot">
> <![endif]-->
>
> all other code
>
> <!--[if IE]>
> </div>
> <![endif]-->
>
> Read more here:
> http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/ie7-dehacker.html
>
> HDB
> Jolle
>
> 10 apr 2008 kl. 16.01 skrev Rick Dwyer:
>>
>> I have a site designed and laid out entirely in CCS.  It validates  
>> via W3C for both XML and CSS.  Looks great on Safari & FireFox.  
>> Versions of Explorer however won't even render entire aspects of  
>> the page, making it essentially useless if you are using certain  
>> versions  of Explorer (and even versions that render it show  
>> considerable anomalies).  I am well aware of MS's disregard for  
>> basic standards, but how does a site like ESPN pull it off?  What  
>> tricks or tools can I use to tweak the site so it's CSS/XML  
>> compliant AND viewable in Explorer?
>>
>> We have sales guys here with no technical knowledge of what's  
>> involved.  After months of laying out the site, it doesn't work on  
>> a few test computers running Explorer and in their infinite wisdom,  
>> they think the solution is to re-lay the whole thing out in plain  
>> HTML.
>>
>> Help is appreciated.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> --
>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>
>
>
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Redding, CA 96099-0872
530.941.4706
www.1027Design.com




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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

Steve Upton
In reply to this post by rdwyer
At 10:01 AM -0400 4/10/08, Rick Dwyer wrote:
>I have a site designed and laid out entirely in CCS.  It validates via W3C for both XML and CSS.  Looks great on Safari & FireFox.  Versions of Explorer however won't even render entire aspects of the page, making it essentially useless if you are using certain versions  of Explorer (and even versions that render it show considerable anomalies).  I am well aware of MS's disregard for basic standards, but how does a site like ESPN pull it off?  What tricks or tools can I use to tweak the site so it's CSS/XML compliant AND viewable in Explorer?
>
>We have sales guys here with no technical knowledge of what's involved.  After months of laying out the site, it doesn't work on a few test computers running Explorer and in their infinite wisdom, they think the solution is to re-lay the whole thing out in plain HTML.

yes, well, let's avoid that right!?!?! <g>

a well worn and very valuable site is QuirksMode

<http://www.quirksmode.org/>

This guy puts a LOT of effort into testing and documenting odd browser behavior.

I've found it tends to be a few things that IE misinterprets and once you figure them out (and find work-arounds) things tend to settle down. Until they do, however, it looks like a trainwreck.

Good luck

Steve


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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

dguardiola
In reply to this post by rdwyer

The solution is a combination of hard work, testing, and M.edwards  
IE7 script.....
(I added a conditional statement for all my sites to use it if they  
use IE6, time to upgrade guys!!!)

For IE7, which supports CSS much better than its predecessor, it's a  
matter of knowing the common base IE7 share with the good browsers  
when coming to CSS

this site design is fairly simple:
http://www.apromer.fr
but I had to work 1 hour more after designed it in Safari/Firefox to  
make it work under IE7
and abandoned centered content in the page in the meanwhile...


Le 10 avr. 08 à 16:01, Rick Dwyer a écrit :

> I have a site designed and laid out entirely in CCS.  It validates  
> via W3C for both XML and CSS.  Looks great on Safari & FireFox.  
> Versions of Explorer however won't even render entire aspects of  
> the page, making it essentially useless if you are using certain  
> versions  of Explorer (and even versions that render it show  
> considerable anomalies).  I am well aware of MS's disregard for  
> basic standards, but how does a site like ESPN pull it off?  What  
> tricks or tools can I use to tweak the site so it's CSS/XML  
> compliant AND viewable in Explorer?
>
> We have sales guys here with no technical knowledge of what's  
> involved.  After months of laying out the site, it doesn't work on  
> a few test computers running Explorer and in their infinite wisdom,  
> they think the solution is to re-lay the whole thing out in plain  
> HTML.
>
> Help is appreciated.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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http://www.quinode.fr/





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Re: OT: CSS based Lasso Site

Jonathan Vanherpe (T & T NV)
Dominique Guardiola wrote:

>
> The solution is a combination of hard work, testing, and M.edwards IE7
> script.....
> (I added a conditional statement for all my sites to use it if they use
> IE6, time to upgrade guys!!!)
>
> For IE7, which supports CSS much better than its predecessor, it's a
> matter of knowing the common base IE7 share with the good browsers when
> coming to CSS
>
> this site design is fairly simple:
> http://www.apromer.fr
> but I had to work 1 hour more after designed it in Safari/Firefox to
> make it work under IE7
> and abandoned centered content in the page in the meanwhile...
>
>
> Le 10 avr. 08 à 16:01, Rick Dwyer a écrit :
>
> --
> Dominique Guardiola, QUINODE
> http://www.quinode.fr/

You also have to use a proper doctype declaration to make sure IE is in
'standards mode' (it's a good idea for the other browsers too, btw).

To check if a page is being rendered in quirks or standards mode, just
paste the following in your address bar while your page is open:
javascript:alert(document.compatMode)

Jonathan
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