Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

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Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...

I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to the  
task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and  
firewire backup). This mini runs Lasso 8.5, Apache 2.2 and MySQL 5  
and that is all (except of course for the normal system stuff).

I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me) and 30
+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal traffic  
and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running (a general  
catch all for small sites and then specific sites for some of the  
larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of page ins to page  
outs (running around 75% at the moment) with processor load in the .
15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows 50 mb of free ram. I am  
sure more ram would help, but the mini is maxed out in that regard.

So, I am trying to decide what to do next. Another Mini to move MySQL  
off to? Another Mini (or two) and split the sites up (of course this  
means more copies of Lasso). Should I just bite the rather large  
bullet and move to an intel Xserve? What about off site Lasso  
hosting? Am I missing anything?

Marc

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web << DESIGN >> print
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www.1027Consulting.com



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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Eric Browning-3
I moved my MySQL 5 off onto a separate linux install from my apple  
machine and it was quite a bit snappier, I'd try that first.

On Nov 5, 2007, at 5:19 PM, Marc Pinnell wrote:

> If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...
>
> I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to the  
> task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and  
> firewire backup). This mini runs Lasso 8.5, Apache 2.2 and MySQL 5  
> and that is all (except of course for the normal system stuff).
>
> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me) and  
> 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal traffic  
> and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running (a general  
> catch all for small sites and then specific sites for some of the  
> larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of page ins to page  
> outs (running around 75% at the moment) with processor load in the .
> 15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows 50 mb of free ram. I am  
> sure more ram would help, but the mini is maxed out in that regard.
>
> So, I am trying to decide what to do next. Another Mini to move  
> MySQL off to? Another Mini (or two) and split the sites up (of  
> course this means more copies of Lasso). Should I just bite the  
> rather large bullet and move to an intel Xserve? What about off site  
> Lasso hosting? Am I missing anything?
>
> Marc
>
> --
> Marc Pinnell
> 1027 Consulting
> web << DESIGN >> print
> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
> www.1027Consulting.com
>
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Simon Forster
In reply to this post by Marc Pinnell-3

On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:

> Another Mini to move MySQL off to?

I've always got good results by splitting the database server off from  
the web server. For best performance, use a second (ethernet)  
interface between the 2 machines for communication between them. Maybe  
a chance to try TCP/IP over firewire between the 2 Minis - but you'd  
need to move the backup to USB?

HTH

Simon Forster
__________________________________________________
  LDML Ltd, 62 Pall Mall, London, SW1Y 5HZ, UK
  Tel: +44 20 7993 8813   Fax: +44 70 9230 5247
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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Mark Palmer
In reply to this post by Marc Pinnell-3
It doesn't sound like the outright performance of the mini processor
(s) is the problem just that you are running out of RAM.

Would it be possible to par those 5 LassoSites down to one or two  
maybe and save some RAM. Looking at my similar spec/setup mini  
(1.83Ghz C2D/2Gb) it seems a Lasso site is using 75-85Mb of RAM.

I have 33 virtual hosts and 3 LassoSites and have nearly 700Mb of  
free RAM (using command line top), is there anything else gobbling up  
RAM - maybe some very large MySQL caches?

Always nice if you don't have to spend any money at all - but then I  
guess you have to offset that against your time.

Out of interest, and nothing to do with the above, but do you boot  
off the Firewire RAID and use the internal drive for backup?


On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:

> If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...
>
> I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to the  
> task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and  
> firewire backup). This mini runs Lasso 8.5, Apache 2.2 and MySQL 5  
> and that is all (except of course for the normal system stuff).
>
> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me) and  
> 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal  
> traffic and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running (a  
> general catch all for small sites and then specific sites for some  
> of the larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of page ins  
> to page outs (running around 75% at the moment) with processor load  
> in the .15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows 50 mb of free  
> ram. I am sure more ram would help, but the mini is maxed out in  
> that regard.
>
> So, I am trying to decide what to do next. Another Mini to move  
> MySQL off to? Another Mini (or two) and split the sites up (of  
> course this means more copies of Lasso). Should I just bite the  
> rather large bullet and move to an intel Xserve? What about off  
> site Lasso hosting? Am I missing anything?
>
> Marc
>
> --
> Marc Pinnell
> 1027 Consulting
> web << DESIGN >> print
> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
> www.1027Consulting.com
>
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
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>



Regards

Mark Palmer
E: [hidden email]
T: 01902 620500
W: www.pageworks.co.uk


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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Fabrizio Carioni
In reply to this post by Marc Pinnell-3
>If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...
>

My approach was to split the sites on different machines.

I don't like having a single machine running all my sites. In case of
a failure I'll be completely offline. If you have multiple machines
you can set things up so that you have a cross bakup of one machine
on the other and in case of failure you can get back on line very
rapidly.

At this time I have 4 machines running live services + 1 extra
machine just hanging there in case one of the other four fail. I'm
using minis but that really changes nothing. I wouldn't stay with
just one XServe (or any other machine type), what if the machine
fails?

I'm in colocation.

Ciao




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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

dguardiola
In reply to this post by Marc Pinnell-3

Le 6 nov. 07 à 01:19, Marc Pinnell a écrit :

> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me) and  
> 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal  
> traffic and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running (a  
> general catch all for small sites and then specific sites for some  
> of the larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of page ins  
> to page outs (running around 75% at the moment) with processor load  
> in the .15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows 50 mb of free  
> ram. I am sure more ram would help, but the mini is maxed out in  
> that regard.

excuse me Marc, could you just explain how you setup this "catchall"  
site  ?
is it the "default" site ?

what is the counterpart of grouping the low-traffic sites in this  
Lasso Site ?
I suppose they will share the same process, will they slow down ?

I ask this because until now I created a new Site for each client -  
although they all use the same CMS solution - and each of them takes  
between 50 and 70 Mo of RAM, same problem : I see the bottleneck of  
the mini RAM maximum coming soon...

thanks for sharing this
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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
In reply to this post by Mark Palmer
Booting on the internal drive and backing up to the firewire.  
Although after reading about doing it the other way on this list I  
have considered it.

Marc


On Nov 6, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Mark Palmer wrote:

> It doesn't sound like the outright performance of the mini processor
> (s) is the problem just that you are running out of RAM.
>
> Would it be possible to par those 5 LassoSites down to one or two  
> maybe and save some RAM. Looking at my similar spec/setup mini  
> (1.83Ghz C2D/2Gb) it seems a Lasso site is using 75-85Mb of RAM.
>
> I have 33 virtual hosts and 3 LassoSites and have nearly 700Mb of  
> free RAM (using command line top), is there anything else gobbling  
> up RAM - maybe some very large MySQL caches?
>
> Always nice if you don't have to spend any money at all - but then  
> I guess you have to offset that against your time.
>
> Out of interest, and nothing to do with the above, but do you boot  
> off the Firewire RAID and use the internal drive for backup?
>
>
> On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>
>> If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...
>>
>> I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to  
>> the task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and  
>> firewire backup). This mini runs Lasso 8.5, Apache 2.2 and MySQL 5  
>> and that is all (except of course for the normal system stuff).
>>
>> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me)  
>> and 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal  
>> traffic and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running (a  
>> general catch all for small sites and then specific sites for some  
>> of the larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of page ins  
>> to page outs (running around 75% at the moment) with processor  
>> load in the .15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows 50 mb of  
>> free ram. I am sure more ram would help, but the mini is maxed out  
>> in that regard.
>>
>> So, I am trying to decide what to do next. Another Mini to move  
>> MySQL off to? Another Mini (or two) and split the sites up (of  
>> course this means more copies of Lasso). Should I just bite the  
>> rather large bullet and move to an intel Xserve? What about off  
>> site Lasso hosting? Am I missing anything?
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> --
>> Marc Pinnell
>> 1027 Consulting
>> web << DESIGN >> print
>> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
>> www.1027Consulting.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Palmer
> E: [hidden email]
> T: 01902 620500
> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>

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Marc Pinnell
1027 Consulting
web << DESIGN >> print
PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
www.1027Consulting.com



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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
In reply to this post by dguardiola
The "catchall" is just the default site, so yes they share the  
process, but they are all so low in overhead that it doesn't cause a  
problem amongst them (at least not a huge one).


On Nov 6, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Dominique Guardiola wrote:

>
> Le 6 nov. 07 à 01:19, Marc Pinnell a écrit :
>
>> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me)  
>> and 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal  
>> traffic and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running (a  
>> general catch all for small sites and then specific sites for some  
>> of the larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of page ins  
>> to page outs (running around 75% at the moment) with processor  
>> load in the .15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows 50 mb of  
>> free ram. I am sure more ram would help, but the mini is maxed out  
>> in that regard.
>
> excuse me Marc, could you just explain how you setup this  
> "catchall" site  ?
> is it the "default" site ?
>
> what is the counterpart of grouping the low-traffic sites in this  
> Lasso Site ?
> I suppose they will share the same process, will they slow down ?
>
> I ask this because until now I created a new Site for each client -  
> although they all use the same CMS solution - and each of them  
> takes between 50 and 70 Mo of RAM, same problem : I see the  
> bottleneck of the mini RAM maximum coming soon...
>
> thanks for sharing this
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
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Marc Pinnell
1027 Consulting
web << DESIGN >> print
PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
www.1027Consulting.com



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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
In reply to this post by Fabrizio Carioni
Fabrizio,

How do you decide when it is time to roll out a new machine? Number  
of sites? Do you group websites into one Lasso site or does each  
client get their own Lasso site? I am wondering about the ROI with  
spending $1500 on each unit (US $950 for the mini and $650 for each  
Lasso copy).

Marc


On Nov 6, 2007, at 2:25 AM, Fabrizio Carioni wrote:

> At this time I have 4 machines running live services + 1 extra  
> machine just hanging there in case one of the other four fail. I'm  
> using minis but that really changes nothing. I wouldn't stay with  
> just one XServe (or any other machine type), what if the machine  
> fails?

--
Marc Pinnell
1027 Consulting
web << DESIGN >> print
PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
www.1027Consulting.com



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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
In reply to this post by Mark Palmer
My lasso sites are showing:

Process ID Real Memory Virtual Memory
#4011 482 mb (16 threads) 819 mb
506 355 mb (47 threads) 844 mb
491 230 mb (16 threads) 603 mb
522 51 mb (16 threads) 409 mb
495 32 mb (16 threads) 385 mb
428 14 mb (4 threads) 73 mb

I see a MySQLd using 13 mb of real ram with 10 threads. I do see 12  
httpd processes - is that right?

Marc

On Nov 6, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Mark Palmer wrote:

> It doesn't sound like the outright performance of the mini processor
> (s) is the problem just that you are running out of RAM.
>
> Would it be possible to par those 5 LassoSites down to one or two  
> maybe and save some RAM. Looking at my similar spec/setup mini  
> (1.83Ghz C2D/2Gb) it seems a Lasso site is using 75-85Mb of RAM.
>
> I have 33 virtual hosts and 3 LassoSites and have nearly 700Mb of  
> free RAM (using command line top), is there anything else gobbling  
> up RAM - maybe some very large MySQL caches?
>
> Always nice if you don't have to spend any money at all - but then  
> I guess you have to offset that against your time.
>
> Out of interest, and nothing to do with the above, but do you boot  
> off the Firewire RAID and use the internal drive for backup?
>
>
> On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>
>> If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...
>>
>> I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to  
>> the task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and  
>> firewire backup). This mini runs Lasso 8.5, Apache 2.2 and MySQL 5  
>> and that is all (except of course for the normal system stuff).
>>
>> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me)  
>> and 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal  
>> traffic and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running (a  
>> general catch all for small sites and then specific sites for some  
>> of the larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of page ins  
>> to page outs (running around 75% at the moment) with processor  
>> load in the .15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows 50 mb of  
>> free ram. I am sure more ram would help, but the mini is maxed out  
>> in that regard.
>>
>> So, I am trying to decide what to do next. Another Mini to move  
>> MySQL off to? Another Mini (or two) and split the sites up (of  
>> course this means more copies of Lasso). Should I just bite the  
>> rather large bullet and move to an intel Xserve? What about off  
>> site Lasso hosting? Am I missing anything?
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> --
>> Marc Pinnell
>> 1027 Consulting
>> web << DESIGN >> print
>> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
>> www.1027Consulting.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Palmer
> E: [hidden email]
> T: 01902 620500
> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
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Marc Pinnell
1027 Consulting
web << DESIGN >> print
PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
www.1027Consulting.com



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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Fletcher Sandbeck-3
On 11/6/07 at 9:32 AM, [hidden email] (Marc
Pinnell) wrote:

>My lasso sites are showing:
>
>Process ID        Real Memory         Virtual Memory
>#4011     482 mb (16 threads)     819 mb
>506           355 mb (47 threads)     844 mb
>491           230 mb (16 threads)     603 mb
>522           51 mb (16 threads)      409 mb
>495           32 mb (16 threads)      385 mb
>428           14 mb (4 threads)       73 mb
>
>I see a MySQLd using 13 mb of real ram with 10 threads. I do
>see 12 httpd processes - is that right?

Apache will spawn additional processes to handle the incoming
traffics.  The number of HTTPD processes will vary depending on load.

You should look at the System Memory tab of the Activity Monitor
to get a handle on memory usage.

Check the page ins and page outs.  A page out occurs when the
system needs to free up some memory so it writes the current
state to disk.  A page in occurs when one of those stored pages
is read back into memory.  Some page ins and page outs are
normal as programs launch, go idle, etc.

If you see a lot of page outs then you know that your machine is
making heavy use of virtual memory.  Your performance will be
impacted since the system has to page memory in before it can
use it.  The worst case is that each page load on one site or
another requires memory to be paged in.

You can also check how much free memory there is.  Ideally you
will always have a small reserve of free memory available for
processes that need it.  If there is sufficient free memory then
the system doesn't need to page memory out.

[fletcher]

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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
Fletcher,

The page ins and outs are running around 4:3 ratio (400,000 in to  
300,000 out). It is my understanding that when it gets above about  
20% that memory is insufficient. My current free memory is around 200  
mb (seems like it was around 50 mb yesterday).

marc

On Nov 6, 2007, at 9:45 AM, Fletcher Sandbeck wrote:

> On 11/6/07 at 9:32 AM, [hidden email] (Marc Pinnell)  
> wrote:
>
>> My lasso sites are showing:
>>
>> Process ID        Real Memory         Virtual Memory
>> #4011     482 mb (16 threads)     819 mb
>> 506           355 mb (47 threads)     844 mb
>> 491           230 mb (16 threads)     603 mb
>> 522           51 mb (16 threads)      409 mb
>> 495           32 mb (16 threads)      385 mb
>> 428           14 mb (4 threads)       73 mb
>>
>> I see a MySQLd using 13 mb of real ram with 10 threads. I do see  
>> 12 httpd processes - is that right?
>
> Apache will spawn additional processes to handle the incoming  
> traffics.  The number of HTTPD processes will vary depending on load.
>
> You should look at the System Memory tab of the Activity Monitor to  
> get a handle on memory usage.
>
> Check the page ins and page outs.  A page out occurs when the  
> system needs to free up some memory so it writes the current state  
> to disk.  A page in occurs when one of those stored pages is read  
> back into memory.  Some page ins and page outs are normal as  
> programs launch, go idle, etc.
>
> If you see a lot of page outs then you know that your machine is  
> making heavy use of virtual memory.  Your performance will be  
> impacted since the system has to page memory in before it can use  
> it.  The worst case is that each page load on one site or another  
> requires memory to be paged in.
>
> You can also check how much free memory there is.  Ideally you will  
> always have a small reserve of free memory available for processes  
> that need it.  If there is sufficient free memory then the system  
> doesn't need to page memory out.
>
> [fletcher]
>
> --
> Fletcher Sandbeck                         [hidden email]
> LassoSoft, LLC                          http://www.lassosoft.com
>
>
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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Mark Palmer
In reply to this post by Marc Pinnell-3
Dunno whether this comparisons is meaningful in any way without  
knowing what your Lasso code is doing that's different to mine but I  
have 10 httpd processes but my Lasso memory usage is much lower. All  
my .htm requests go through Lasso.

Process threads Real Virtual
581 16 79.30 MB 372.36 MB
577 16 59.49 MB 355.13 MB
573 16 84.39 MB 378.78 MB
483 4 31.91 MB 76.20 MB



On 6 Nov 2007, at 17:32, Marc Pinnell wrote:

> My lasso sites are showing:
>
> Process ID Real Memory Virtual Memory
> #4011 482 mb (16 threads) 819 mb
> 506 355 mb (47 threads) 844 mb
> 491 230 mb (16 threads) 603 mb
> 522 51 mb (16 threads) 409 mb
> 495 32 mb (16 threads) 385 mb
> 428 14 mb (4 threads) 73 mb
>
> I see a MySQLd using 13 mb of real ram with 10 threads. I do see 12  
> httpd processes - is that right?
>
> Marc
>
> On Nov 6, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Mark Palmer wrote:
>
>> It doesn't sound like the outright performance of the mini  
>> processor(s) is the problem just that you are running out of RAM.
>>
>> Would it be possible to par those 5 LassoSites down to one or two  
>> maybe and save some RAM. Looking at my similar spec/setup mini  
>> (1.83Ghz C2D/2Gb) it seems a Lasso site is using 75-85Mb of RAM.
>>
>> I have 33 virtual hosts and 3 LassoSites and have nearly 700Mb of  
>> free RAM (using command line top), is there anything else gobbling  
>> up RAM - maybe some very large MySQL caches?
>>
>> Always nice if you don't have to spend any money at all - but then  
>> I guess you have to offset that against your time.
>>
>> Out of interest, and nothing to do with the above, but do you boot  
>> off the Firewire RAID and use the internal drive for backup?
>>
>>
>> On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>>
>>> If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...
>>>
>>> I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to  
>>> the task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and  
>>> firewire backup). This mini runs Lasso 8.5, Apache 2.2 and MySQL  
>>> 5 and that is all (except of course for the normal system stuff).
>>>
>>> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me)  
>>> and 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal  
>>> traffic and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running  
>>> (a general catch all for small sites and then specific sites for  
>>> some of the larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of  
>>> page ins to page outs (running around 75% at the moment) with  
>>> processor load in the .15 to .20 area. The activity monitor shows  
>>> 50 mb of free ram. I am sure more ram would help, but the mini is  
>>> maxed out in that regard.
>>>
>>> So, I am trying to decide what to do next. Another Mini to move  
>>> MySQL off to? Another Mini (or two) and split the sites up (of  
>>> course this means more copies of Lasso). Should I just bite the  
>>> rather large bullet and move to an intel Xserve? What about off  
>>> site Lasso hosting? Am I missing anything?
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marc Pinnell
>>> 1027 Consulting
>>> web << DESIGN >> print
>>> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
>>> www.1027Consulting.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Palmer
>> E: [hidden email]
>> T: 01902 620500
>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>
>>
>> --
>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>
>
> --
> Marc Pinnell
> 1027 Consulting
> web << DESIGN >> print
> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
> www.1027Consulting.com
>
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
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>



Regards

Mark Palmer
E: [hidden email]
T: 01902 620500
W: www.pageworks.co.uk


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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
Hmmmm.... What types of things expand Memory in Lasso sites? You are  
the second or third person to mention the size of Lasso being in the  
50-70 mb range.

Marc


On Nov 6, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Mark Palmer wrote:

> Dunno whether this comparisons is meaningful in any way without  
> knowing what your Lasso code is doing that's different to mine but  
> I have 10 httpd processes but my Lasso memory usage is much lower.  
> All my .htm requests go through Lasso.
>
> Process threads Real Virtual
> 581 16 79.30 MB 372.36 MB
> 577 16 59.49 MB 355.13 MB
> 573 16 84.39 MB 378.78 MB
> 483 4 31.91 MB 76.20 MB
>
>
>
> On 6 Nov 2007, at 17:32, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>
>> My lasso sites are showing:
>>
>> Process ID Real Memory Virtual Memory
>> #4011 482 mb (16 threads) 819 mb
>> 506 355 mb (47 threads) 844 mb
>> 491 230 mb (16 threads) 603 mb
>> 522 51 mb (16 threads) 409 mb
>> 495 32 mb (16 threads) 385 mb
>> 428 14 mb (4 threads) 73 mb
>>
>> I see a MySQLd using 13 mb of real ram with 10 threads. I do see  
>> 12 httpd processes - is that right?
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Mark Palmer wrote:
>>
>>> It doesn't sound like the outright performance of the mini  
>>> processor(s) is the problem just that you are running out of RAM.
>>>
>>> Would it be possible to par those 5 LassoSites down to one or two  
>>> maybe and save some RAM. Looking at my similar spec/setup mini  
>>> (1.83Ghz C2D/2Gb) it seems a Lasso site is using 75-85Mb of RAM.
>>>
>>> I have 33 virtual hosts and 3 LassoSites and have nearly 700Mb of  
>>> free RAM (using command line top), is there anything else  
>>> gobbling up RAM - maybe some very large MySQL caches?
>>>
>>> Always nice if you don't have to spend any money at all - but  
>>> then I guess you have to offset that against your time.
>>>
>>> Out of interest, and nothing to do with the above, but do you  
>>> boot off the Firewire RAID and use the internal drive for backup?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>>>
>>>> If someone would be so kind to offer a little advice...
>>>>
>>>> I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to  
>>>> the task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM  
>>>> (and firewire backup). This mini runs Lasso 8.5, Apache 2.2 and  
>>>> MySQL 5 and that is all (except of course for the normal system  
>>>> stuff).
>>>>
>>>> I have 4-5 sites that are fairly db intensive (at least for me)  
>>>> and 30+ sites that are smaller mom & pop type sites with minimal  
>>>> traffic and database useage. I have about 5 Lasso Sites running  
>>>> (a general catch all for small sites and then specific sites for  
>>>> some of the larger sites). I am seeing a fairly high ratio of  
>>>> page ins to page outs (running around 75% at the moment) with  
>>>> processor load in the .15 to .20 area. The activity monitor  
>>>> shows 50 mb of free ram. I am sure more ram would help, but the  
>>>> mini is maxed out in that regard.
>>>>
>>>> So, I am trying to decide what to do next. Another Mini to move  
>>>> MySQL off to? Another Mini (or two) and split the sites up (of  
>>>> course this means more copies of Lasso). Should I just bite the  
>>>> rather large bullet and move to an intel Xserve? What about off  
>>>> site Lasso hosting? Am I missing anything?
>>>>
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Marc Pinnell
>>>> 1027 Consulting
>>>> web << DESIGN >> print
>>>> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
>>>> www.1027Consulting.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mark Palmer
>>> E: [hidden email]
>>> T: 01902 620500
>>> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Marc Pinnell
>> 1027 Consulting
>> web << DESIGN >> print
>> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
>> www.1027Consulting.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
>> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Palmer
> E: [hidden email]
> T: 01902 620500
> W: www.pageworks.co.uk
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
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Marc Pinnell
1027 Consulting
web << DESIGN >> print
PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
www.1027Consulting.com



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[Announce] Lasso Commerce Developer Group - In Beta

andre hopkins
In reply to this post by Simon Forster
greetings,

i'm doing a lot of work with commerce (both e-comm and offline) and  
Lasso has been a great middleware to use and continues to get better.  
E-commerce involves enough pieces that I think it would be valuable  
to have a dedicated mailing list and web site.

Here's some quick bullet points:

* a way to discover and share e-commerce related scripts and  
solutions in an accountable way, either through person to person  
exchange, or members area.

* organize, promote, and discover different lasso based solutions for  
e-commerce. for example if you have an e-commerce store running, and  
now you need to add the UPS online solution - this has already been  
figured out and done, but its difficult to quickly find out who has  
worked on it, if they will share scripts, if they are willing to help  
you a little for free, if they can be hired to help you, etc etc.  
There is a basic script available on one of the lasso sites, but to  
fully use UPS xml services there is a lot more involved.

* share tips, tricks, and news that are e-commerce specific. web 2.0  
is more then a buzz term, it is quickly changing what consumers  
expect from a web store. we all have stuff we are learning and would  
like to share, but is too e-commerce specific to post on the general  
Lasso list.

* a goto web presence for new developers investigating Lasso as an e-
commerce platform

* promote Lasso as a *safe secure and scalable* platform for web  
stores. a goto page we can point potential clients as to why Lasso is  
a great choice for their commerce solution.

* exchange info and ideas on how e-commerce solutions are becoming  
complete commerce solutions for online and offline. its not just  
about selling products over the web - its about solutions where the  
web site sales, third party site sales like amazon and ebay, off line  
mail order fulfillment, phone order screens, retail point of sale -  
all running on a lasso platform and/or doing live data exchange with  
other platforms.

* back up help for when you may need it or to show the client that  
you aren't on your own (with a technology they have never heard of).  
many of us are one or two person operations - if you have a quick go  
to list of e-commerce developers you are familiar with, that will go  
a long ways to reassure clients who all eventually ask the question -  
what happens to my commerce system if something happens to you?

so theres some bullet points and maybe points to ponder.  
LassoCommerce.org is the name i registered for this.

if you are interested, have opinions, or just want to lurk on the  
mailing list, please let me know.

thanks, Andre









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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Fabrizio Carioni
In reply to this post by Marc Pinnell-3

>Fabrizio,
>
>How do you decide when it is time to roll out a new machine? Number
>of sites? Do you group websites into one Lasso site or does each
>client get their own Lasso site? I am wondering about the ROI with
>spending $1500 on each unit (US $950 for the mini and $650 for each
>Lasso copy).
>
>Marc
>

Ciao Marc.
I group all websites in one lasso site.
We don't have clients but all sites are ours and our partners and we
manage them directly.

Also, we don't add sites very frequently.

I use the "top" command quite a lot to keep an eye on what the
machine is doing. If I see a machine having the load average
frequently over 1.0 I get the feeling I shouldn't add too much on
that one. Our machines usually stay between 0.10 and 0.60.
I also take a look at the number of total processes (usually in the
range 70 - 170). This for a normal webserver with apache, lasso,
mysql, synchronize and tb2.
Finally lots of pageouts usually tell me there's something wrong,
maybe with some code taking too long to execute. If I get pageouts
constantly growing day after day I check things out.
Just to give a number, one of our webserver has been restarted some
20 days ago and now has a total of 152 pageouts.

This probably isn't very "technical" but that's how I do it.

Ciao

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======================================================================
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S.r.l.                                                                                
Gran Sasso (via), 50 - 20090 - Segrate (Mi) - Italy
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Email [hidden email] - URL http://www.golem100.com/
======================================================================

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Re: [Announce] Lasso Commerce Developer Group - In Beta

Bil Corry-3
In reply to this post by andre hopkins
andre hopkins wrote on 11/6/2007 1:51 PM:
> E-commerce involves enough pieces that I think it would be valuable to
> have a dedicated mailing list and web site.

Sounds like a great resource, thanks for doing it!


- Bil


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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Marc Pinnell-3
In reply to this post by Fabrizio Carioni
Thanks, that gives me some "baseline" comparisons.

On Nov 6, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Fabrizio Carioni wrote:

>
>> Fabrizio,
>>
>> How do you decide when it is time to roll out a new machine?  
>> Number of sites? Do you group websites into one Lasso site or does  
>> each client get their own Lasso site? I am wondering about the ROI  
>> with spending $1500 on each unit (US $950 for the mini and $650  
>> for each Lasso copy).
>>
>> Marc
>>
>
> Ciao Marc.
> I group all websites in one lasso site.
> We don't have clients but all sites are ours and our partners and  
> we manage them directly.
>
> Also, we don't add sites very frequently.
>
> I use the "top" command quite a lot to keep an eye on what the  
> machine is doing. If I see a machine having the load average  
> frequently over 1.0 I get the feeling I shouldn't add too much on  
> that one. Our machines usually stay between 0.10 and 0.60.
> I also take a look at the number of total processes (usually in the  
> range 70 - 170). This for a normal webserver with apache, lasso,  
> mysql, synchronize and tb2.
> Finally lots of pageouts usually tell me there's something wrong,  
> maybe with some code taking too long to execute. If I get pageouts  
> constantly growing day after day I check things out.
> Just to give a number, one of our webserver has been restarted some  
> 20 days ago and now has a total of 152 pageouts.
>
> This probably isn't very "technical" but that's how I do it.
>
> Ciao
>
> --
> ======================================================================
> Fabrizio Carioni - Golem100  
> S.r.l.                                                                
>                 Gran Sasso (via), 50 - 20090 - Segrate (Mi) - Italy
> Voice +39-02-2133402  -  Fax +39-02-93650749  - Mobile 3356463448
> Email [hidden email] - URL http://www.golem100.com/
> ======================================================================
>
> --
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Marc Pinnell
1027 Consulting
web << DESIGN >> print
PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
www.1027Consulting.com



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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

Clive Bruton
In reply to this post by Marc Pinnell-3

On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:

> I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to the  
> task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and  
> firewire backup).

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I think the RAM restriction on  
these machines is actually 3GB, if you have a look around I'm pretty  
sure I saw someone offering 3GB kits for minis (1*1GB + 1*2GB units).

May help a little bit.


-- Clive

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Re: Multiple MacMini's or One XServe or Offsite Hosting?

John May-2
>On 6 Nov 2007, at 00:19, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>
>>I am beginning to believe my MacMini web host is just not up to the
>>task. The mini is a 1.66 Intel Core Duo with 2 gb of RAM (and
>>firewire backup).
>
>I'm not 100% certain on this, but I think the RAM restriction on
>these machines is actually 3GB, if you have a look around I'm pretty
>sure I saw someone offering 3GB kits for minis (1*1GB + 1*2GB units).
>
>May help a little bit.
>
>-- Clive


Core Duos are limited to 2GB, Core 2 Duos to 3GB.

<http://www.lowendmac.com/> is my go-to source for any questions like this.

        - John

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