Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

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Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

lasso-3
Has anyone developed an email list manager that's lasso-based?  We're
looking to add a newsletter service for our company and want customers
to be able to manage thier subscription from our site - it needs to have
double opt-in capability.

If no one has done one, is there anyone else out that that needs one and
can collaberate with me on this?

By "double opt-in" I mean:
An individual must ask to be added to your list and then reply to a
confirmation email you send immediately to their email address. The
initial request can simply come from them checking a box when they
purchase something from you or signing up to be a member with your
organization. Only people who respond to the confirmation email saying
they want to be on your list should receive bulk email from you. This
confirmation must use an authentication scheme that prevents recipients
from being signed up for lists by anyone other than themselves. Note
that most corporations use the double opt-in method.

Thanks

Cory.

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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Erik Van-der-Mey
At 1:21 PM -0700 12/1/05, Cory @ SkyVantage wrote:

>Has anyone developed an email list manager that's lasso-based?
>We're looking to add a newsletter service for our company and want
>customers to be able to manage thier subscription from our site - it
>needs to have double opt-in capability.
>
>If no one has done one, is there anyone else out that that needs one
>and can collaberate with me on this?
>
>By "double opt-in" I mean:
>An individual must ask to be added to your list and then reply to a
>confirmation email you send immediately to their email address. The
>initial request can simply come from them checking a box when they
>purchase something from you or signing up to be a member with your
>organization. Only people who respond to the confirmation email
>saying they want to be on your list should receive bulk email from
>you. This confirmation must use an authentication scheme that
>prevents recipients from being signed up for lists by anyone other
>than themselves. Note that most corporations use the double opt-in
>method.

Are you looking to have the mailing list function within Lasso as
well or use an external listserver like LetterRip?

Regards,
--
Erik Van-der-Mey                                    AIM: [hidden email]
[hidden email]                              http://webcentrix.net
WebCentrix, Inc. - Macintosh Web Hosting/Co-Location/Dedicated Servers

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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

lasso-3
In reply to this post by lasso-3
Since my list is going to be resonable small (from hundreds of
subscribers to very low thousands), I won't be using any external
delivery method.   I'd like to use Lasso exclusively...

Erik Van-der-Mey wrote:

> Are you looking to have the mailing list function within Lasso as well
> or use an external listserver like LetterRip?



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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Marc Pinnell-3
In reply to this post by lasso-3
If anyone has one, I have just started using LetterRip and I would be  
interested in a front end (save myself the trouble of writing one!).

Marc


On Dec 1, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Cory @ SkyVantage wrote:

> Since my list is going to be resonable small (from hundreds of  
> subscribers to very low thousands), I won't be using any external  
> delivery method.   I'd like to use Lasso exclusively...
>
> Erik Van-der-Mey wrote:
>
>> Are you looking to have the mailing list function within Lasso as  
>> well or use an external listserver like LetterRip?
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
> Manage your list subscription:  http://www.listsearch.com/ 
> lassotalk.lasso?manage
>

--
Marc Pinnell
1027 Consulting
web << DESIGN >> print
PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
www.1027Consulting.com



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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Doug Gentry
In reply to this post by lasso-3
I think the tough part of integrating Lasso with LetterRip is that  
all of the LRP files (addresses, etc.) are text, and maybe even  
loaded into memory. We'd all love a way to use the LRP engine with an  
independent database. Looking at it from the other way around (could  
Lasso substitute for LRP?) my sense is that the toughest issue is  
recognizing and handling bounces. Even with all of the email  
standards, there are a plethora of ways that servers report problems.  
LetterRip and other more well known mailing list engines have had  
longer than most any other web app to learn and improve - since  
mailing lists were one of the first Internet applications.

But boy would I love to have a way for LRP to read/load addresses  
from MySQL.  Jud Spencer, the LRP owner/developer knows this, but it  
is not his day job and other users are hammering for other improvements.

....Doug Gentry

On Dec 1, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Marc Pinnell wrote:

> If anyone has one, I have just started using LetterRip and I would  
> be interested in a front end (save myself the trouble of writing  
> one!).
>
> Marc
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Cory @ SkyVantage wrote:
>
>> Since my list is going to be resonable small (from hundreds of  
>> subscribers to very low thousands), I won't be using any external  
>> delivery method.   I'd like to use Lasso exclusively...
>>
>> Erik Van-der-Mey wrote:
>>
>>> Are you looking to have the mailing list function within Lasso as  
>>> well or use an external listserver like LetterRip?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>> Manage your list subscription:  http://www.listsearch.com/ 
>> lassotalk.lasso?manage
>>
>
> --
> Marc Pinnell
> 1027 Consulting
> web << DESIGN >> print
> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
> www.1027Consulting.com
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
> Manage your list subscription: http://www.listsearch.com/ 
> lassotalk.lasso?manage


---
Doug Gentry
Dynapolis & Southern Oregon University
p:  541-261-8501 / Toll Free: 888-490-0644
[hidden email]


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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Greg Hemphill
In reply to this post by lasso-3
I've created several Lasso based newsletter sign up features.  While I
can't share the source code I'd be happy to answer any questions about
how to manage such a system.

The one I'm currently working on can be found here (test site):
http://mnb.tds3.webstop.com

I would also like to find a way to either send bulk mail though Lasso
or find a bulk email product that reads a MySQL database.  Lasso seems
to only be able to handle 2,000 emails per hour, which is fine if you
only have a few hundred to send.  However we have a client with 20k per
day he'd like to send, and others who do weekly blasts of around 80K...
doing the math 2k/hour doesn't cut it for lists this size.  So we've
resorted to exporting a mailing list from MySQL and importing it into
other applications, like eMerge... yuck!  Anyone know of a bulk mailer
that handles high volume, runs on a Mac, uses MySQL for distribution
list, and is easy to run/setup???

Thanks,
Greg


On Dec 1, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Doug Gentry wrote:

> I think the tough part of integrating Lasso with LetterRip is that all
> of the LRP files (addresses, etc.) are text, and maybe even loaded
> into memory. We'd all love a way to use the LRP engine with an
> independent database. Looking at it from the other way around (could
> Lasso substitute for LRP?) my sense is that the toughest issue is
> recognizing and handling bounces. Even with all of the email
> standards, there are a plethora of ways that servers report problems.
> LetterRip and other more well known mailing list engines have had
> longer than most any other web app to learn and improve - since
> mailing lists were one of the first Internet applications.
>
> But boy would I love to have a way for LRP to read/load addresses from
> MySQL.  Jud Spencer, the LRP owner/developer knows this, but it is not
> his day job and other users are hammering for other improvements.
>
> ....Doug Gentry
>
> On Dec 1, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>
>> If anyone has one, I have just started using LetterRip and I would be
>> interested in a front end (save myself the trouble of writing one!).
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Cory @ SkyVantage wrote:
>>
>>> Since my list is going to be resonable small (from hundreds of
>>> subscribers to very low thousands), I won't be using any external
>>> delivery method.   I'd like to use Lasso exclusively...
>>>
>>> Erik Van-der-Mey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are you looking to have the mailing list function within Lasso as
>>>> well or use an external listserver like LetterRip?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>>> Manage your list subscription:  
>>> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Marc Pinnell
>> 1027 Consulting
>> web << DESIGN >> print
>> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
>> www.1027Consulting.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>> Manage your list subscription:
>> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage
>
>
> ---
> Doug Gentry
> Dynapolis & Southern Oregon University
> p:  541-261-8501 / Toll Free: 888-490-0644
> [hidden email]
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
> Manage your list subscription:
> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage
>
>
---------------------------------
    Greg Hemphill
    VP of Development
    Webstop.com, Inc.
---------------------------------
    Company: http://www.Webstop.com
    Personal: http://www.MrGHemp.com
    Email: [hidden email]
    AIM: MrGHemp
    Office: 727.942.2797
    Fax: 727.938.2347
    Mobile: 727.692.6886
---------------------------------


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------------------------------
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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Mark Palmer
In reply to this post by lasso-3
I spotted Intellimerge SQL a while ago, but haven't used it as it's to rich
for my needs: http://www.intellisw.com/intellimergesql/index.php


on 1/12/05 23:12, Greg Hemphill at [hidden email] wrote:

> I've created several Lasso based newsletter sign up features.  While I
> can't share the source code I'd be happy to answer any questions about
> how to manage such a system.
>
> The one I'm currently working on can be found here (test site):
> http://mnb.tds3.webstop.com
>
> I would also like to find a way to either send bulk mail though Lasso
> or find a bulk email product that reads a MySQL database.  Lasso seems
> to only be able to handle 2,000 emails per hour, which is fine if you
> only have a few hundred to send.  However we have a client with 20k per
> day he'd like to send, and others who do weekly blasts of around 80K...
> doing the math 2k/hour doesn't cut it for lists this size.  So we've
> resorted to exporting a mailing list from MySQL and importing it into
> other applications, like eMerge... yuck!  Anyone know of a bulk mailer
> that handles high volume, runs on a Mac, uses MySQL for distribution
> list, and is easy to run/setup???
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Doug Gentry wrote:
>
>> I think the tough part of integrating Lasso with LetterRip is that all
>> of the LRP files (addresses, etc.) are text, and maybe even loaded
>> into memory. We'd all love a way to use the LRP engine with an
>> independent database. Looking at it from the other way around (could
>> Lasso substitute for LRP?) my sense is that the toughest issue is
>> recognizing and handling bounces. Even with all of the email
>> standards, there are a plethora of ways that servers report problems.
>> LetterRip and other more well known mailing list engines have had
>> longer than most any other web app to learn and improve - since
>> mailing lists were one of the first Internet applications.
>>
>> But boy would I love to have a way for LRP to read/load addresses from
>> MySQL.  Jud Spencer, the LRP owner/developer knows this, but it is not
>> his day job and other users are hammering for other improvements.
>>
>> ....Doug Gentry
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>>
>>> If anyone has one, I have just started using LetterRip and I would be
>>> interested in a front end (save myself the trouble of writing one!).
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Cory @ SkyVantage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since my list is going to be resonable small (from hundreds of
>>>> subscribers to very low thousands), I won't be using any external
>>>> delivery method.   I'd like to use Lasso exclusively...
>>>>
>>>> Erik Van-der-Mey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Are you looking to have the mailing list function within Lasso as
>>>>> well or use an external listserver like LetterRip?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>>>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>>>> Manage your list subscription:
>>>> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marc Pinnell
>>> 1027 Consulting
>>> web << DESIGN >> print
>>> PO Box 990872; Redding, CA 96099-0872
>>> www.1027Consulting.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>>> Manage your list subscription:
>>> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Doug Gentry
>> Dynapolis & Southern Oregon University
>> p:  541-261-8501 / Toll Free: 888-490-0644
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>> Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
>> Search the list archives: http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso
>> Manage your list subscription:
>> http://www.listsearch.com/lassotalk.lasso?manage
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------
>     Greg Hemphill
>     VP of Development
>     Webstop.com, Inc.
> ---------------------------------
>     Company: http://www.Webstop.com
>     Personal: http://www.MrGHemp.com
>     Email: [hidden email]
>     AIM: MrGHemp
>     Office: 727.942.2797
>     Fax: 727.938.2347
>     Mobile: 727.692.6886
> ---------------------------------
>


Regards


Mark Palmer, Pageworks

T: 01902 620500            F: 01902 620440
E: [hidden email]    W: www.pageworks.co.uk



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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Paul Melia
In reply to this post by lasso-3
I would suggest taking a look at MaxBulk Mailer from MAX Programming  
- www.maxprog.com
I have used it for mass mailings to thousands for United Nations jobs  
and it is very nice.

The Pro version has SQL integration and you can download a demo copy  
and try it right off the bat.

HTH,
Paul


On Dec 1, 2005, at 6:12 PM, Greg Hemphill wrote:

>
> I would also like to find a way to either send bulk mail though  
> Lasso or find a bulk email product that reads a MySQL database.  
> Lasso seems to only be able to handle 2,000 emails per hour, which  
> is fine if you only have a few hundred to send.  However we have a  
> client with 20k per day he'd like to send, and others who do weekly  
> blasts of around 80K... doing the math 2k/hour doesn't cut it for  
> lists this size.  So we've resorted to exporting a mailing list  
> from MySQL and importing it into other applications, like eMerge...  
> yuck!  Anyone know of a bulk mailer that handles high volume, runs  
> on a Mac, uses MySQL for distribution list, and is easy to run/
> setup???
>
> Thanks,
> Greg


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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Erik Van-der-Mey
In reply to this post by lasso-3
At 2:26 PM -0800 12/1/05, Doug Gentry wrote:

>I think the tough part of integrating Lasso with LetterRip is that
>all of the LRP files (addresses, etc.) are text, and maybe even
>loaded into memory. We'd all love a way to use the LRP engine with
>an independent database. Looking at it from the other way around
>(could Lasso substitute for LRP?) my sense is that the toughest
>issue is recognizing and handling bounces. Even with all of the
>email standards, there are a plethora of ways that servers report
>problems. LetterRip and other more well known mailing list engines
>have had longer than most any other web app to learn and improve -
>since mailing lists were one of the first Internet applications.
>
>But boy would I love to have a way for LRP to read/load addresses
>from MySQL.  Jud Spencer, the LRP owner/developer knows this, but it
>is not his day job and other users are hammering for other
>improvements.

The other way to go about it is to have the database on the web
server manage subscriptions and have it send email admin instructions
to the LetterRip to add/delete someones subscription behind the
scenes.

I have setup such a system in the past and could help recreate it if
someone wants it for their site.

Regards,
--
Erik Van-der-Mey                                    AIM: [hidden email]
[hidden email]                              http://webcentrix.net
WebCentrix, Inc. - Macintosh Web Hosting/Co-Location/Dedicated Servers

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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Alex Pilson
In reply to this post by lasso-3
At 6:54 PM -0500 12/1/05, Paul Melia wrote:
>I would suggest taking a look at MaxBulk Mailer from MAX Programming
>- www.maxprog.com
>I have used it for mass mailings to thousands for United Nations
>jobs and it is very nice.
>
>The Pro version has SQL integration and you can download a demo copy
>and try it right off the bat.

Another one, a high-end product: http://www.lyris.com/ I have not
personally used it. But every company I know that uses it, swears by
it.

I currently have a Lasso 6 mass email system that uses a custom LJAPI
tag to send mass email and then check for bounces and then mark the
DB. It sends about 10,000 per hour, sometimes faster depending on the
load of the lasso server. It is MySQL based. I am currently working
on converting to over to Lasso 8 using the new email tags that allow
you to bypass the Lasso queue, which should bring it to the speed my
LJAPI runs at. I have been contemplating releasing it among other
solutions. So we'll see.

--
<?------------------------------------------------------------------------------/>
     Alex Pilson          FlagShip Hosting, LLC
     800.592.6781     <http://www.flagshiphosting.com>
<?------------------------------------------------------------------------------/>

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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Clive Bruton
In reply to this post by lasso-3

On 1 Dec 2005, at 23:12, Greg Hemphill wrote:

> Lasso seems to only be able to handle 2,000 emails per hour, which  
> is fine if you only have a few hundred to send.

Any idea what the bottleneck is there? Are you sending directly to  
the user's SMTP, or to a SMTP host on your LAN?

If anyone wants to build a list server in Lasso, or has one  
available, I'm definitely into it - it's one of those projects I keep  
putting off...


-- Clive

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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Marc Pope-3
In reply to this post by lasso-3
Brian Middendorf and I looked into this a little bit. I am not sure that the
Lasso email bottleneck can be overcome unless you completely rewrite the
mail engine.

Some of the bottleneck is also the MTA you are sending to. There's just too
much back and forth communication.

The best thing I came up with was to build the emails into a "mbox" file and
then drop them into an MTA like Send Mail or QMail. Major email marketing
companies do it by using something like an IronPort MTA (www.ironport.com)
to send the email at rates of 500,000 to 1M an hour. It works by dumping a
file to it and then it sends out.

We use ExactTarget.com to send to our list of 200,000 weekly. It sends out
in about 30 minutes to the entire list, and each email is completely
different, targeted to the user. They obviously have some serious hardware
to do this.

Hope that gives you some info.. I'd love to be able to send high-volumes
using Lasso.. But have had trouble coming up with any good solutions.

HTH,
Marc Pope



On 12/1/05 8:24 PM, "Clive Bruton" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 1 Dec 2005, at 23:12, Greg Hemphill wrote:
>
>> Lasso seems to only be able to handle 2,000 emails per hour, which
>> is fine if you only have a few hundred to send.
>
> Any idea what the bottleneck is there? Are you sending directly to
> the user's SMTP, or to a SMTP host on your LAN?
>
> If anyone wants to build a list server in Lasso, or has one
> available, I'm definitely into it - it's one of those projects I keep
> putting off...
>
>
> -- Clive



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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

jc-15
In reply to this post by lasso-3
My junk mailbox is currently deleting about 1900 SPAM mails per week.  
Seeing this issue from that perspective I'm not so interested in  
contributing to more mass email solutions. What, besides SPAM, can  
motivate sending 500 000 to 1 million emails per hour? No  
organisation can have that many actively interested customers. You  
would have reached every living person in Europe in less than two weeks!

No, I put my vote for a built in limitation in Lasso that makes it  
impossible to send more than, say, a thousand emails per hour.

HDB
JC

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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Johan Solve
In reply to this post by lasso-3
2005/12/2, Clive Bruton <[hidden email]>:
> Any idea what the bottleneck is there? Are you sending directly to
> the user's SMTP, or to a SMTP host on your LAN?

I've found that the major bottleneck is to put the messages into the
email queue, mostly due to slowness of the quoted prinatble encoding
routine. Look at using the email_compose tag instead of email_send.
Also look at avoiding quoted printable encoding by sending messages as
8-bit if possible.

Once messages are in the queue, I've found that they are delivered
pretty quickly to the mail host. Lasso sorts messages by domain and
send several messages during a single connection, using multiple
parallell threads (I think 4 as default, although this can be
adjusted). This is rather well optimized.

--
     Johan Sölve    [FSA Partner, Lasso Partner]
     Web Application/Lasso/FileMaker Developer
     MONTANIA SOFTWARE & SOLUTIONS
http://www.montania.se   mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Johan Solve
In reply to this post by lasso-3
2005/12/2, Clive Bruton <[hidden email]>:
> Any idea what the bottleneck is there? Are you sending directly to
> the user's SMTP, or to a SMTP host on your LAN?

I've found that the major bottleneck is to put the messages into the
email queue, mostly due to slowness of the quoted prinatble encoding
routine. Look at using the email_compose tag instead of email_send.
Also look at avoiding quoted printable encoding by sending messages as
8-bit if possible.

Once messages are in the queue, I've found that they are delivered
pretty quickly to the mail host. Lasso sorts messages by domain and
send several messages during a single connection, using multiple
parallell threads (I think 4 as default, although this can be
adjusted). This is rather well optimized.

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     Johan Sölve    [FSA Partner, Lasso Partner]
     Web Application/Lasso/FileMaker Developer
     MONTANIA SOFTWARE & SOLUTIONS
http://www.montania.se   mailto:[hidden email]
 (spam-safe email address, replace '-' with 'a')

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Lasso Support: http://support.omnipilot.com/
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Re: Lasso Based Email List Opt-In?

Johan Solve
In reply to this post by lasso-3
2005/12/1, Cory @ SkyVantage <[hidden email]>:
> By "double opt-in" I mean:
> An individual must ask to be added to your list and then reply to a
> confirmation email you send immediately to their email address.

To simplify things technically you can supply a link in the message
that the recipient click on to confirm their subscription.
Handling a reply message is much more complicated since you must then
have Lasso check a POP account and parse incoming messages.

--
     Johan Sölve    [FSA Partner, Lasso Partner]
     Web Application/Lasso/FileMaker Developer
     MONTANIA SOFTWARE & SOLUTIONS
http://www.montania.se   mailto:[hidden email]
 (spam-safe email address, replace '-' with 'a')

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