Lasso 9 documents are sparse

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Lasso 9 documents are sparse

Tom Langton-2
I had my company pay for Lasso 9 last year (maybe it was 2008) when it was
announced. I have a SN and am ready to start to upgrade.

I downloaded and installed the server and I can¹t find "read mes" in the
download or on the Lasso site how to get started. Obviously the paradigm
shifted and I didn¹t get the memo.

The online dox, as far as I can tell, are weak nearly to the point of
absurdity.

From the online docs ­ Section 1 overview->
³For a quick start, see Section II: Installation for instructions about how
to install Lasso Server on the supported platforms and how to upgade from a
previous version of Lasso.²

I can¹t find Section II! (and "upgade"! C'mon!)

Can anyone point me to the documentation that tells how to get to the admin
pages? Is there going to be a pdf of the manual? If so, when? I can wait ­
the frustration of trying to get started with the lack of anything tangible
is exasperating. So I've stopped trying.

I apologize in advance if it is so obvious and I¹m just not seeing it, but,
there is no Lasso 9 folder in my applications folder, as there was in
versions 6,7, and 8.

Mac, OS X.5.8 and holding.

Tom Langton



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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse

gzasuwa
They moved the Lasso app to a library (even some stuff in here is  
incorrect)

 From Brad Lindsay

The installer doesn't install a folder in your Application's folder.

For Mac OS X, it installs to /Library/Lasso.  It also installs /
Library/Frameworks/Lasso9.framework.

  It also installs the lasso9, lassoc, and lassoserver executables in /
usr/local/bin/.  If you installed the apache2 configuration file, that  
gets installed in /private/etc/apache2/other/lasso9.apache2.conf.



> http://www.lassotech.com/Setting%20up%20Lasso%209%20with%20SVN

But alas dox are sparse right now.

See lassotech
Sincerely,

Gerard Zasuwa Gary
Senior Systems Analyst
Henry Ford Health System
Greenfield Health System
(313)-916-2651 work
(313)-585-9621 NEW CELL
(248)-360-0456 home






On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Tom Langton wrote:

> I had my company pay for Lasso 9 last year (maybe it was 2008) when  
> it was
> announced. I have a SN and am ready to start to upgrade.
>
> I downloaded and installed the server and I can¹t find "read mes" in  
> the
> download or on the Lasso site how to get started. Obviously the  
> paradigm
> shifted and I didn¹t get the memo.
>
> The online dox, as far as I can tell, are weak nearly to the point of
> absurdity.
>
> From the online docs  Section 1 overview->
> ³For a quick start, see Section II: Installation for instructions  
> about how
> to install Lasso Server on the supported platforms and how to upgade  
> from a
> previous version of Lasso.²
>
> I can¹t find Section II! (and "upgade"! C'mon!)
>
> Can anyone point me to the documentation that tells how to get to  
> the admin
> pages? Is there going to be a pdf of the manual? If so, when? I can  
> wait
> the frustration of trying to get started with the lack of anything  
> tangible
> is exasperating. So I've stopped trying.
>
> I apologize in advance if it is so obvious and I¹m just not seeing  
> it, but,
> there is no Lasso 9 folder in my applications folder, as there was in
> versions 6,7, and 8.
>
> Mac, OS X.5.8 and holding.
>
> Tom Langton
>
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>
>


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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Kerry Adams-2
In reply to this post by Tom Langton-2
Hello!

We realize that at the moment, the Lasso 9 documentation is a bit
sparse, and we're working on the them as quickly as we can.  We ask that
in the meantime you please remain patient, and please feel free to ask
any questions here on Lasso Talk.

There are quite a few people out there in the Lasso Community who are
already using Lasso 9, and I'm sure that they'd be happy to answer your
questions and point you in the right direction until the additional docs
are made available.

Best Regards,

Kerry Adams

[ LassoSoft ]
[ www.lassosoft.com ]
[ 954.302.3526 - 888.286.7753 ]

------------------------------------------------


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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Waters, Thomas C
Looking forward to better documentation, although if there are people  
out there using Lasso 9, I'm not sure why we haven't seen them chime  
in and say more here.

Here I have justified sticking with Lasso saying that to switch to PHP  
would mean a total site rewrite so I hope that my existing code works  
for the most part or I may lose my battle and be forced to begin a  
move to PHP.

Awaiting better docs, is anyone running 8.5 on Mac OS X 10.6? We have  
already moved a number of ohr other servers over, and plan was to move  
the webserver at the time we upgrade Lasso. But maybe that is a bad  
direction. Maybe I should move to 10.6 with Lasso 8.x and then upgrade  
Lasso later.

Sent from my iPone

On Feb 11, 2010, at 3:19 AM, "Kerry Adams" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> We realize that at the moment, the Lasso 9 documentation is a bit
> sparse, and we're working on the them as quickly as we can.  We ask  
> that
> in the meantime you please remain patient, and please feel free to ask
> any questions here on Lasso Talk.
>
> There are quite a few people out there in the Lasso Community who are
> already using Lasso 9, and I'm sure that they'd be happy to answer  
> your
> questions and point you in the right direction until the additional  
> docs
> are made available.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Kerry Adams
>
> [ LassoSoft ]
> [ www.lassosoft.com ]
> [ 954.302.3526 - 888.286.7753 ]
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>
>

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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Brad Lindsay-2

On Feb 11, 2010, at 5:35 AM, Waters, Thomas C wrote:
> Here I have justified sticking with Lasso saying that to switch to PHP  
> would mean a total site rewrite so I hope that my existing code works  
> for the most part or I may lose my battle and be forced to begin a  
> move to PHP.

Most of your code should work for the most part.  While using the betas, I discovered that Lasso 9 tends not to be as forgiving as 8.5 was, though some of that happened to be bugs in the compatibility layer.  What do I mean by not as forgiving? Well, for example, when setting an -expiration in session_start, it wants an integer and not a string, so -expiration=120 instead of -expiration='120'.  (I think this example no longer holds up and may have been one of the bugs in the compatibility layer that I mentioned.)

That being said, if a total rewrite was necessary, I would still stick with Lasso since the language is still very much the same and to switch to PHP would necessitate learning a completely new language instead of modifying what I already know about Lasso.


> Awaiting better docs, is anyone running 8.5 on Mac OS X 10.6?

I've been running all the betas on 10.6.  I haven't tried 10.6 Server, and I've noticed a post about some problems an installer had with the Server edition along with the solutions, so if you run into that, check the archives.


Brad
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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Tom Langton-2
In reply to this post by Kerry Adams-2
Mistake 1 was to announce the product more than a year before its release. I
think Lasso folks have been contrite on that and I realize what marketing
pressure you folks are under with no new releases in years. I can forgive
all that.

Mistake 2, is to announce that the product is to be released, Hell or high
water, on a certain date, update the web site with some loss of
functionality and slap a little "growing pains" notice on the front page to
try to smooth things over. And a ton of hype with no "there" there.
You folks sell web server middle ware. This really makes you look bad - and
worse - sloppy and incompetent. This, after mistake 1, is not forgivable.

I ask questions of the list when I'm stuck - I shouldn't have to ask "how to
get to the admin page" (still don't know). Gerard pointed out a link
referring to "Setting up Lasso 9 beta with Subversion on OS X." Thanks for
trying to help but - ???!

I am a casual developer, I don't use Lasso as a primary function of my job.
I can't take the time to attend developer conferences. I rely on
documentation first, fortitude and perseverance second, and then the list
last (I hate asking dumb questions only to find that it's covered in the
manual). I can't imagine there aren't allot more folks like me who are
utterly befuddled right now. Just because lots of folks may be using L9
(still a mystery why "professional" was dropped from the name - resisting
the urge to be sarcastic here) doesn't make it at all clear to me where to
get started. Your ENTIRE user base are your employers. Show us some respect.
(I really think the list is great - one of my favorite places to lurk.)

I'll keep watching the list for signs of positive movement, but at this
point, for me, Lasso 9 is all smoke and no fire. Orson "sell no wine before
it's time" Welles wouldn't endorse this strategy. (Well, maybe, if you cut
him a check.)

Let me/us know when it's (really) ready.

Tom Langton


On 2/11/10 3:19 AM, "Kerry Adams" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We realize that at the moment, the Lasso 9 documentation is a bit
> sparse, and we're working on the them as quickly as we can.  We ask that
> in the meantime you please remain patient, and please feel free to ask
> any questions here on Lasso Talk.
>
> There are quite a few people out there in the Lasso Community who are
> already using Lasso 9, and I'm sure that they'd be happy to answer your
> questions and point you in the right direction until the additional docs
> are made available.



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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Peter D Bethke
I'll pipe in here on LS's defense on the last point, the "no fire" part, as
someone who has made a good living off of Lasso for over 10 years now, and
seen every upgrade come and go since 2.5. There is plenty of fire under the
hood, much more than we've ever had, bringing Lasso in line with products
with much more resources, and surpassing many. What unfortunately is going
on is the result of resources. There just isn't enough of Kyle to go around.
He's spent 3 years taking all the old dross out of lasso and for that we
should be really, really grateful. The real problem is the admin interface -
this is the part that is unfinished and in my opinion uneccessarily flashy
as compared to the LP85 one. While I hate to think I may have to roll my own
admin interface, I may just have to. I know a lot of folks won't want to do
that either.

My guess is that Fletcher and Kyle are taking some time off, much earned but
the silence is not making people who have waited these 3 years with them any
more cheerful. But lets cut them some slack on the "fire" side, I think they
have earned it.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Lasso Talk [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Langton
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:27 AM
To: Lasso Talk
Subject: Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Mistake 1 was to announce the product more than a year before its release. I
think Lasso folks have been contrite on that and I realize what marketing
pressure you folks are under with no new releases in years. I can forgive
all that.

Mistake 2, is to announce that the product is to be released, Hell or high
water, on a certain date, update the web site with some loss of
functionality and slap a little "growing pains" notice on the front page to
try to smooth things over. And a ton of hype with no "there" there.
You folks sell web server middle ware. This really makes you look bad - and
worse - sloppy and incompetent. This, after mistake 1, is not forgivable.

I ask questions of the list when I'm stuck - I shouldn't have to ask "how to
get to the admin page" (still don't know). Gerard pointed out a link
referring to "Setting up Lasso 9 beta with Subversion on OS X." Thanks for
trying to help but - ???!

I am a casual developer, I don't use Lasso as a primary function of my job.
I can't take the time to attend developer conferences. I rely on
documentation first, fortitude and perseverance second, and then the list
last (I hate asking dumb questions only to find that it's covered in the
manual). I can't imagine there aren't allot more folks like me who are
utterly befuddled right now. Just because lots of folks may be using L9
(still a mystery why "professional" was dropped from the name - resisting
the urge to be sarcastic here) doesn't make it at all clear to me where to
get started. Your ENTIRE user base are your employers. Show us some respect.
(I really think the list is great - one of my favorite places to lurk.)

I'll keep watching the list for signs of positive movement, but at this
point, for me, Lasso 9 is all smoke and no fire. Orson "sell no wine before
it's time" Welles wouldn't endorse this strategy. (Well, maybe, if you cut
him a check.)

Let me/us know when it's (really) ready.

Tom Langton


On 2/11/10 3:19 AM, "Kerry Adams" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We realize that at the moment, the Lasso 9 documentation is a bit
> sparse, and we're working on the them as quickly as we can.  We ask that
> in the meantime you please remain patient, and please feel free to ask
> any questions here on Lasso Talk.
>
> There are quite a few people out there in the Lasso Community who are
> already using Lasso 9, and I'm sure that they'd be happy to answer your
> questions and point you in the right direction until the additional docs
> are made available.



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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse

Brad Lindsay-2
In reply to this post by Tom Langton-2

On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:43 PM, Tom Langton wrote:
> Can anyone point me to the documentation that tells how to get to the admin
> pages?

http://docs9.lassosoft.com/Lasso%209%20Server/003%20Language%20Guide/004%20Web%20Applications/003%20Lasso%20Apps/index.lasso#ServerConfigurationmetashowshowtotailorLassoAppservingmeta

This is actually showing how you can setup a VirtualHost to take care of the Lasso Admin.  But it also documents that the URL is /lasso9/admin.

I understand your frustration with the lack of documentation, and, quite honestly, I was expecting more documentation to be available on launch then there currently is.  Since I've started using Lasso, it has always had amazing documentation, and what's currently available for 9 is nice, but incomplete.


On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Tom Langton wrote:
> I'll keep watching the list for signs of positive movement, but at this
> point, for me, Lasso 9 is all smoke and no fire.

I think this is an entirely reasonable position to take, to watch and wait for a time when things are documented enough for you and other "casual developers" to make Lasso 9 useable.


Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Brad
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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Marc Vos
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
I agree totally. That's why I haven't touched Lasso9 and shall not until it is completely production-ready. Like others, I'm only partly developing in Lasso and therefore do not want to spend hours trial&error'ing on Lasso9.

That's why I now take the opportunity to say BIG THANKS to all of you who are beta-testing and reporting everything to LS.

I find the Lasso9 concept a very, very good one and I don't mind waiting. I got a good bargain when I purchased a license, so I'm still good. I would never have had the price difference in interest when I would have kept those few hundred bucks in my pocket - I probably would have spend it on something else!

I have always wondered how LS managed to pay salaries and such, because the Lasso investment is a fair one-time fee with free updates! I suggested to them a more REALbasic like approach when they had this questionnaire about pricing and buying. That would give LS a more continuos and foreseeable income.

As long as Lasso8 runs, and I hope Lasso9 will be really ready by the end of the year, I'm happy.

- -
Marc

On 11 feb 2010 wk 6, at 15:39, Peter D Bethke wrote:

> I'll pipe in here on LS's defense on the last point, the "no fire" part, as
> someone who has made a good living off of Lasso for over 10 years now, and
> seen every upgrade come and go since 2.5. There is plenty of fire under the
> hood, much more than we've ever had, bringing Lasso in line with products
> with much more resources, and surpassing many. What unfortunately is going
> on is the result of resources. There just isn't enough of Kyle to go around.
> He's spent 3 years taking all the old dross out of lasso and for that we
> should be really, really grateful. The real problem is the admin interface -
> this is the part that is unfinished and in my opinion uneccessarily flashy
> as compared to the LP85 one. While I hate to think I may have to roll my own
> admin interface, I may just have to. I know a lot of folks won't want to do
> that either.
>
> My guess is that Fletcher and Kyle are taking some time off, much earned but
> the silence is not making people who have waited these 3 years with them any
> more cheerful. But lets cut them some slack on the "fire" side, I think they
> have earned it.
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lasso Talk [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Langton
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:27 AM
> To: Lasso Talk
> Subject: Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback
>
> Mistake 1 was to announce the product more than a year before its release. I
> think Lasso folks have been contrite on that and I realize what marketing
> pressure you folks are under with no new releases in years. I can forgive
> all that.
>
> Mistake 2, is to announce that the product is to be released, Hell or high
> water, on a certain date, update the web site with some loss of
> functionality and slap a little "growing pains" notice on the front page to
> try to smooth things over. And a ton of hype with no "there" there.
> You folks sell web server middle ware. This really makes you look bad - and
> worse - sloppy and incompetent. This, after mistake 1, is not forgivable.
>
> I ask questions of the list when I'm stuck - I shouldn't have to ask "how to
> get to the admin page" (still don't know). Gerard pointed out a link
> referring to "Setting up Lasso 9 beta with Subversion on OS X." Thanks for
> trying to help but - ???!
>
> I am a casual developer, I don't use Lasso as a primary function of my job.
> I can't take the time to attend developer conferences. I rely on
> documentation first, fortitude and perseverance second, and then the list
> last (I hate asking dumb questions only to find that it's covered in the
> manual). I can't imagine there aren't allot more folks like me who are
> utterly befuddled right now. Just because lots of folks may be using L9
> (still a mystery why "professional" was dropped from the name - resisting
> the urge to be sarcastic here) doesn't make it at all clear to me where to
> get started. Your ENTIRE user base are your employers. Show us some respect.
> (I really think the list is great - one of my favorite places to lurk.)
>
> I'll keep watching the list for signs of positive movement, but at this
> point, for me, Lasso 9 is all smoke and no fire. Orson "sell no wine before
> it's time" Welles wouldn't endorse this strategy. (Well, maybe, if you cut
> him a check.)
>
> Let me/us know when it's (really) ready.
>
> Tom Langton
>
>
> On 2/11/10 3:19 AM, "Kerry Adams" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> We realize that at the moment, the Lasso 9 documentation is a bit
>> sparse, and we're working on the them as quickly as we can.  We ask that
>> in the meantime you please remain patient, and please feel free to ask
>> any questions here on Lasso Talk.
>>
>> There are quite a few people out there in the Lasso Community who are
>> already using Lasso 9, and I'm sure that they'd be happy to answer your
>> questions and point you in the right direction until the additional docs
>> are made available.
>
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/Lasso/
>
>


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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Waters, Thomas C
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
I echo Peter's comments and major kudos to Kyle and others at LassoSoft for all their hard work. And lots of fire under the hood- more than ever before is a good thing to be sure!!   For me it was the post about inlines that have the -username and -password prompting the inline to fail that was a red flag to me!

I "bought" the upgrade to 9 way back when it was offered, ad I believe that was more than a year ago. And I'm OK with that to some degree. The user base of this software isn't huge, and so those of us using need to be there to support it. But I think LassoSoft has also rethink how it does upgrades and updates. Smaller, incremental changes for example?  I use plenty of applications that have a smaller user base (than Adobe or Microsoft or other large companies) and they make it work so that previous work isn't broken by default.  And when changes to the coding or  the structure of the app itself are going to force this to be a problem, then documentation is essential, and should come first and not after the application.

So, glad v9 is out and I'm looking forward to digging in.

On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:

> I'll pipe in here on LS's defense on the last point, the "no fire" part, as
> someone who has made a good living off of Lasso for over 10 years now, and
> seen every upgrade come and go since 2.5. There is plenty of fire under the
> hood, much more than we've ever had, bringing Lasso in line with products
> with much more resources, and surpassing many. What unfortunately is going
> on is the result of resources. There just isn't enough of Kyle to go around.
> He's spent 3 years taking all the old dross out of lasso and for that we
> should be really, really grateful. The real problem is the admin interface -
> this is the part that is unfinished and in my opinion uneccessarily flashy
> as compared to the LP85 one. While I hate to think I may have to roll my own
> admin interface, I may just have to. I know a lot of folks won't want to do
> that either.
>
> My guess is that Fletcher and Kyle are taking some time off, much earned but
> the silence is not making people who have waited these 3 years with them any
> more cheerful. But lets cut them some slack on the "fire" side, I think they
> have earned it.
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lasso Talk [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Langton
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:27 AM
> To: Lasso Talk
> Subject: Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback
>
> Mistake 1 was to announce the product more than a year before its release. I
> think Lasso folks have been contrite on that and I realize what marketing
> pressure you folks are under with no new releases in years. I can forgive
> all that.
>
> Mistake 2, is to announce that the product is to be released, Hell or high
> water, on a certain date, update the web site with some loss of
> functionality and slap a little "growing pains" notice on the front page to
> try to smooth things over. And a ton of hype with no "there" there.
> You folks sell web server middle ware. This really makes you look bad - and
> worse - sloppy and incompetent. This, after mistake 1, is not forgivable.
>
> I ask questions of the list when I'm stuck - I shouldn't have to ask "how to
> get to the admin page" (still don't know). Gerard pointed out a link
> referring to "Setting up Lasso 9 beta with Subversion on OS X." Thanks for
> trying to help but - ???!
>
> I am a casual developer, I don't use Lasso as a primary function of my job.
> I can't take the time to attend developer conferences. I rely on
> documentation first, fortitude and perseverance second, and then the list
> last (I hate asking dumb questions only to find that it's covered in the
> manual). I can't imagine there aren't allot more folks like me who are
> utterly befuddled right now. Just because lots of folks may be using L9
> (still a mystery why "professional" was dropped from the name - resisting
> the urge to be sarcastic here) doesn't make it at all clear to me where to
> get started. Your ENTIRE user base are your employers. Show us some respect.
> (I really think the list is great - one of my favorite places to lurk.)
>
> I'll keep watching the list for signs of positive movement, but at this
> point, for me, Lasso 9 is all smoke and no fire. Orson "sell no wine before
> it's time" Welles wouldn't endorse this strategy. (Well, maybe, if you cut
> him a check.)
>
> Let me/us know when it's (really) ready.
>
> Tom Langton
>
>
> On 2/11/10 3:19 AM, "Kerry Adams" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> We realize that at the moment, the Lasso 9 documentation is a bit
>> sparse, and we're working on the them as quickly as we can.  We ask that
>> in the meantime you please remain patient, and please feel free to ask
>> any questions here on Lasso Talk.
>>
>> There are quite a few people out there in the Lasso Community who are
>> already using Lasso 9, and I'm sure that they'd be happy to answer your
>> questions and point you in the right direction until the additional docs
>> are made available.
>
>
>
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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Waters, Thomas C
In reply to this post by Brad Lindsay-2
With all due respect Brad, if I have to go in and update every inline to remove -username and -password, that is close enough to a total re-write for me. I guess technically it isn't, but it is just as time consuming and costly.

And, you didn't answer my question. Does Lasso 8.5 run on 10.6.x Server?  I don't really care if the betas have run on 10.6, that really isn't meaningful, is it?


On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Brad Lindsay wrote:

>
> On Feb 11, 2010, at 5:35 AM, Waters, Thomas C wrote:
>> Here I have justified sticking with Lasso saying that to switch to PHP  
>> would mean a total site rewrite so I hope that my existing code works  
>> for the most part or I may lose my battle and be forced to begin a  
>> move to PHP.
>
> Most of your code should work for the most part.  While using the betas, I discovered that Lasso 9 tends not to be as forgiving as 8.5 was, though some of that happened to be bugs in the compatibility layer.  What do I mean by not as forgiving? Well, for example, when setting an -expiration in session_start, it wants an integer and not a string, so -expiration=120 instead of -expiration='120'.  (I think this example no longer holds up and may have been one of the bugs in the compatibility layer that I mentioned.)
>
> That being said, if a total rewrite was necessary, I would still stick with Lasso since the language is still very much the same and to switch to PHP would necessitate learning a completely new language instead of modifying what I already know about Lasso.
>
>
>> Awaiting better docs, is anyone running 8.5 on Mac OS X 10.6?
>
> I've been running all the betas on 10.6.  I haven't tried 10.6 Server, and I've noticed a post about some problems an installer had with the Server edition along with the solutions, so if you run into that, check the archives.


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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Brad Lindsay-2

On Feb 11, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Waters, Thomas C wrote:
> And, you didn't answer my question. Does Lasso 8.5 run on 10.6.x Server?  I don't really care if the betas have run on 10.6, that really isn't meaningful, is it?

Sorry, I read that as 9, not 8.5. Yes, I have 8.5 running on a 10.6 Server.

Brad
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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Chris Corwin
In reply to this post by Waters, Thomas C
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Waters, Thomas C <[hidden email]> wrote:
> With all due respect Brad, if I have to go in and update every inline to remove -username and -password, that is close enough to a total re-write for me. I guess technically it isn't, but it is just as time consuming and costly.

i'm not sure where the idea that you'd have to do this comes from, but
it is simply not the case.

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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Waters, Thomas C
In reply to this post by Brad Lindsay-2
Awesome.
On Feb 11, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Brad Lindsay wrote:

>
> On Feb 11, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Waters, Thomas C wrote:
>> And, you didn't answer my question. Does Lasso 8.5 run on 10.6.x Server?  I don't really care if the betas have run on 10.6, that really isn't meaningful, is it?
>
> Sorry, I read that as 9, not 8.5. Yes, I have 8.5 running on a 10.6 Server.
>
> Brad
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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Waters, Thomas C
In reply to this post by Chris Corwin
If you go back on the posts in this thread or a related one, some one posted it.
On Feb 11, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Chris Corwin wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Waters, Thomas C <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> With all due respect Brad, if I have to go in and update every inline to remove -username and -password, that is close enough to a total re-write for me. I guess technically it isn't, but it is just as time consuming and costly.
>
> i'm not sure where the idea that you'd have to do this comes from, but
> it is simply not the case.
>
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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Jonathan Guthrie-5
In reply to this post by Waters, Thomas C
Sorry, just haven't seen specific questions about L9 from a language perspective yet, which I would be HAPPY to help with.

FYI L9 is a dream to develop in once you're up to speed with it ;-)

On 11/02/2010, at 5:35 AM, Waters, Thomas C wrote:

> Looking forward to better documentation, although if there are people  
> out there using Lasso 9, I'm not sure why we haven't seen them chime  
> in and say more here.


Jono

// ---------------------------------------------------------
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    Jonathan Guthrie
    xServe Ltd, Wellington NZ
    [hidden email]   |   http://xserve.co.nz
    DDI +64 4 978 7388   |   Mob +64 21 678890

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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Peter D Bethke
Ok here's one code related:

Lets say we have a type person (I got this from the docs)

<?Lasso

define person => type {
    data public firstName::string
    data public lastName::string
   
    public onCreate() => {}
   
    public onCreate(firstName, lastName) => {
      .'firstName' = string(#firstName)
      .'lastName' = string(#lastName)
    }
   
    public printname(title) => {
   
    return: .firstName ' ' .lastName ' ' #title;
   
    }
   
   
  }

local(bar) = person('Peter', 'Bethke');

#bar->printname(-title = 'the great');

?>


Ok, this works. Now, in "old" Lasso you could specify a parameter by using
the -, ie

#bar->printname(-title = 'Esquire');

This would set the title varible to 'Esquire'; In LP9 I get:

Peter Bethke title:Esquire

Which seems to be echoing the variable instead of setting it. This "-"
method also let you set the paramters non-sequentially, ie
-lastName='Bethke', -firstName='Peter'; Is it now that we have to follow the
order defined in the method definition? I also was fond of using a dash-var
and no value and testing its presense as a shorthand way to add
functionality. As in #bar->printname(-nofirstName); intead of
#bar->printname(-nofirstName = true) or in this case
#bar->printname('Esquire', true);

How is this playing out in LP9?

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Lasso Talk [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Guthrie
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:13 AM
To: Lasso Talk
Subject: Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Sorry, just haven't seen specific questions about L9 from a language
perspective yet, which I would be HAPPY to help with.

FYI L9 is a dream to develop in once you're up to speed with it ;-)

On 11/02/2010, at 5:35 AM, Waters, Thomas C wrote:

> Looking forward to better documentation, although if there are people  
> out there using Lasso 9, I'm not sure why we haven't seen them chime  
> in and say more here.


Jono

// ---------------------------------------------------------
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    Jonathan Guthrie
    xServe Ltd, Wellington NZ
    [hidden email]   |   http://xserve.co.nz
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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Lasso-2
In reply to this post by Kerry Adams-2
Chris Corwin <[hidden email]> on February 11, 2010 at 10:54 AM -0500 wrote:
>On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Waters, Thomas C <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> With all due respect Brad, if I have to go in and update every inline to remove -username and -password, that is close enough to a total re-write for me. I guess technically it isn't, but it is just as time consuming and costly.
>
>i'm not sure where the idea that you'd have to do this comes from, but
>it is simply not the case.

That was me.  I installed L9 on a CentOS VM and copied one of my live sites to test on it.  All my inlines have -Username -Password parameters that work with the permissions structure I setup under LP8

In L9, I added the same Username/Password to the Admin pages, but there's nowhere I can find in Admin to apply any security settings to anything.  Dunno why there's users and groups, but ok.

Problem is that my inlines don't work unless I *remove* all the Username Password params.

So, it *is* the case with me.  Either I'm missing something, which is hard to tell, since there's no docs, or it is, in fact, the case.

No flames intended here.  I ain't upgrading anytime soon.  Just asking questions and point out what I've found.

We really need a quick "What's Different" document, since the full docs are not ready.  Even a bullet point list shouldn't take someone more than a couple of hours.  

And I was even on the beta list since Sept.  Lots of discussions about casting and the difference between null void and empty but nobody talked about Inlines, the Security Model in L9 or the fact that the Portal Tag seems to be MIA.  Maybe that was
discussed in July or something, but there's no beta list archives to lookup either.  (Again, no flames, if I'm missing something, somebody please tell me what and where).

BTW, can someone tell me if [Portal][/Portal] is gone for real?  It's not deprecated in LP8.5.

Commentary:  I've too have released customer facing software.  There's a big temptation is to press the "Launch" button and take a day or two off to decompress.  No matter how well deserved, it's the worst possible time to do this.  There's always gonna
be fires to put out. It's been a couple of days since launch.  I really was hoping to see updated docs or at least a "What's New/What's Different/What's Toast" doc.

Cheers,
Paul Fabris
IT Manager
Market Connections Inc.
www.marketconnections.com


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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Peter D Bethke
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
Whoops, I copied this as I was investigating it the part that works is

local(bar) = person('Peter', 'Bethke');

#bar->printname('the great');

Returns "Peter Bethke the great" (no comments from the peanut gallery)

Rest of post is correct. :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Lasso Talk [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peter D
Bethke
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:56 AM
To: Lasso Talk
Subject: Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Ok here's one code related:

Lets say we have a type person (I got this from the docs)

<?Lasso

define person => type {
    data public firstName::string
    data public lastName::string
   
    public onCreate() => {}
   
    public onCreate(firstName, lastName) => {
      .'firstName' = string(#firstName)
      .'lastName' = string(#lastName)
    }
   
    public printname(title) => {
   
    return: .firstName ' ' .lastName ' ' #title;
   
    }
   
   
  }

local(bar) = person('Peter', 'Bethke');

#bar->printname(-title = 'the great');

?>


Ok, this works. Now, in "old" Lasso you could specify a parameter by using
the -, ie

#bar->printname(-title = 'Esquire');

This would set the title varible to 'Esquire'; In LP9 I get:

Peter Bethke title:Esquire

Which seems to be echoing the variable instead of setting it. This "-"
method also let you set the paramters non-sequentially, ie
-lastName='Bethke', -firstName='Peter'; Is it now that we have to follow the
order defined in the method definition? I also was fond of using a dash-var
and no value and testing its presense as a shorthand way to add
functionality. As in #bar->printname(-nofirstName); intead of
#bar->printname(-nofirstName = true) or in this case
#bar->printname('Esquire', true);

How is this playing out in LP9?

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Lasso Talk [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Guthrie
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:13 AM
To: Lasso Talk
Subject: Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Sorry, just haven't seen specific questions about L9 from a language
perspective yet, which I would be HAPPY to help with.

FYI L9 is a dream to develop in once you're up to speed with it ;-)

On 11/02/2010, at 5:35 AM, Waters, Thomas C wrote:

> Looking forward to better documentation, although if there are people  
> out there using Lasso 9, I'm not sure why we haven't seen them chime  
> in and say more here.


Jono

// ---------------------------------------------------------
/*
    Jonathan Guthrie
    xServe Ltd, Wellington NZ
    [hidden email]   |   http://xserve.co.nz
    DDI +64 4 978 7388   |   Mob +64 21 678890

*/
// ---------------------------------------------------------



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Re: Lasso 9 documents are sparse / LP9 Feedback

Tom Langton-2
In reply to this post by Jonathan Guthrie-5
On 2/11/10 11:13 AM, "Jonathan Guthrie" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> FYI L9 is a dream to develop in once you're up to speed with it ;-)

I don't doubt that it's dreamy, but I can't find the keys, let alone know
where the car is parked.

No flames intended here, sincerely.

I come from the graphics side of the digital biz (I'm a Mac guy). I am very
happy in Photoshop (I guess I'm kind of right brain oriented). I got into
FileMaker long ago (mostly to keep track of what we were doing on the
Chromacom, Scitex and in Photoshop) and excitedly got on the Lasso train
back in version 3.5. I think there are a lot of folks here who come at it
from the same general place.

I've looked at the links offered and I'm convinced waiting is the best idea.
Command line? Maybe with a gun to my head. When the Lasso 6,7,8 installers
finished the install they left you in a web browser asking for an admin
password. Simple and elegant. I can deal with that.

We're also going to need a real manual (TOC, Index and lots of examples),
not just the online reference as it stands now, and I concur with the
comment that Lasso documentation has always been thorough and deep. I will
gladly pay for a physical version.

I mean no disrespect to the Lasso product developers (the quality of their
product is their best defense). As others comment, I also don't understand
their business model (I could probably talk corporate into spending 10x
current licensing costs, but I am sure it is difficult for Lasso to justify
that kind of pricing when competing against PHP, which is perceived as
"free."), but I am grateful they keep it afloat - I really don't want to go
to PHP.

With 9, I think that marketing jumped before development was ready and I'm
disappointed. Still cheering for you, still merrily running LP 8.5, but will
wait for something more or less plug and play before I get aboard.

Tom Langton






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