Lasso 8.6 licensing

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
57 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Lasso 8.6 licensing

Chris Wik-4
I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.

If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.

I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.

LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.

If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.

--
Chris Wik
Anu Internet Services Ltd


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Kevin Bice
It does seem that this 8.6 licensing scheme would simplify things. I am interested in 8.6 upgrade due to moving from OS X to CentOS5.

I plan/hope to move to 9 later in the year after I make this OS/hardware change.
.................................
Kevin Bice
512-879-1653
http://fmpweb.com
.................................
Web Development and Design



On Mar 18, 2011, at 8:02 AM, Chris Wik wrote:

> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.
>
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
> --
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Trevor Borgmeier
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
I agree.

on 3/18/11 8:02 AM Chris Wik wrote:

> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.
>
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
> --
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>    the mailing list<[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to:<[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to<[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to<[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to<[hidden email]>
>
>

#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Black Night Lists
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4

On 18 Mar 2011, at 13:02, Chris Wik wrote:

> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.
>
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.


I have already raised my concerns on this but I am 100% behind what Chris is saying. I don't have any issues with the new licensing scheme on Lasso 9 but we cannot upgrade to 8.6 because it's simply not viable. I would lose money every month. It's all good and well being told that we don't have to upgrade if we don't want to but when a couple of clients say they want to us to upgrade because they need the later version we are in a position where we will have a choice of either upgrading and losing money or simply lose long term clients.

Regards

Stephen Thirlwell
Black Night Software
Lasso Hosting and Development
http://www.blacknight.co.uk








#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Steffan A. Cline
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
+1 For sure, Chris! I've already stated that its no longer cost effective
for me when there are too many other robust free alternatives. I was glad
when LassoSoft LLC dropped the price to $699 or whatever it was because it
was easier to justify to clients.

I too do not feel that if I buy 8.6 and install it on my CentOS box (Real
server not 20 VMs on one server) that I should need a license for every
LassoSite/instance I run. Its just too costly.

I understand the need for new revenue and structure but Lasso is NOT
Oracle and not just the only solution out there and should be kept in
mind. Had Lasso not tanked from its glory days, this structure would be
more feasible. Sure, the updates etc are appealing but you have to
remember that you are repairing a severely damaged reputation and that
takes time. Dropping this complex pricing makes Lasso look out of reach.
This is not repair, sorry to say, its detriment IMO FWIW.


Thanks

Steffan

---------------------------------------------------------------
T E L  6 0 2 . 7 9 3 . 0 0 1 4 | F A X  6 0 2 . 9 7 1 . 1 6 9 4
Steffan A. Cline  
[hidden email]                             Phoenix, Az
http://www.ExecuChoice.net                                  USA
AIM : SteffanC          ICQ : 57234309
YAHOO : Steffan_Cline   MSN : [hidden email]
GOOGLE: Steffan.Cline             Lasso Partner Alliance Member
---------------------------------------------------------------





On 3/18/11 6:02 AM, "Chris Wik" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay
>the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso
>Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
>If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not
>going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller
>accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other
>hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by
>upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken
>to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will
>not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
>I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+-
>100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing
>bugs.
>
>LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like
>with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
>If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can
>properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
>--
>Chris Wik
>Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>



#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Alex Pilson-2
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
I agree 1000%. I mean unless 8.6 is planning having more changes or  
upgrades to 8.7 and beyond, it needs to be treated as a one time fee  
to close out that saga. AND furthermore would clear up all these  
instances versus sites confusion. If version 9 is truly the future of  
Lasso, then make it!

AP

On Mar 18, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Chris Wik wrote:

> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to  
> stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-
> instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a  
> one-time upgrade fee.
>
> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are  
> not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our  
> smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is  
> true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on  
> those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting  
> customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5  
> servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased  
> cost and complexity.
>
> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up  
> $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some  
> long standing bugs.
>
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you  
> like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so  
> LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
> --
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Laurent-40
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
I agree with that.

On 11-03-18 09:02, "Chris Wik" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay
>the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso
>Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
>If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not
>going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller
>accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other
>hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by
>upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken
>to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will
>not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
>I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+-
>100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing
>bugs.
>
>LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like
>with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
>If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can
>properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
>--
>Chris Wik
>Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>



#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Marc Pope-2
In reply to this post by Alex Pilson-2
Basically what I see here is:

Customers who have lots of LassoSites and no real issues with the bugs: Don't Upgrade
Customers who have just 1-3 LassoSites and issues: Not too bad to upgrade, but doing so, downgrades your LassoSites
Customers who have lots of LassoSites and issues: Upgrade to either a monthly license, or Drop some $$$

Hosting Providers: Don't upgrade existing licenses, move problem customers and new customers to new model.

I was really hoping for just a 8.6 upgrade myself and 9 can be changed since it hasn't been widely adopted. There's been no testing externally outside of LassoSoft for the new licensing, how do we know it works?

-Marc


On Mar 18, 2011, at 9:24 AM, alex pilson wrote:

> I agree 1000%. I mean unless 8.6 is planning having more changes or upgrades to 8.7 and beyond, it needs to be treated as a one time fee to close out that saga. AND furthermore would clear up all these instances versus sites confusion. If version 9 is truly the future of Lasso, then make it!
>
> AP
>
> On Mar 18, 2011, at 9:02 AM, Chris Wik wrote:
>
>> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>>
>> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>>
>> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.
>>
>> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>>
>> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>>
>> --
>> Chris Wik
>> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>>
>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Fabrizio Carioni
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
I agree on this!

On Mar 18, 2011, at 14:02, Chris Wik wrote:

> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.
>
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
> --
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>

======================================================================
Fabrizio Carioni - Golem100 S.r.l.                                                                                
Gran Sasso (via), 50 - 20090 - Segrate (Mi) - Italy
Voice +39-02-2133402  -  Fax +39-02-93650749  - Mobile 3356463448
Email [hidden email] - URL http://www.golem100.com/
The Inka Roads Project - URL http://www.inkaroads.com/
======================================================================


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Ke Carlton-3
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
It seems frankly wrong to force people into a new licensing agreement
for a point release that is effectively a bug fix release.

Most of the fixes are critical and Lassosoft has effectively taken a
Microsoft approach (want the fixes pay for the new OS). However it's
worse as there's no new OS involved and the rules have been so
dramatically changed that previous business plans seem to have
effectively been nullified.

Ke

On 18 March 2011 13:02, Chris Wik <[hidden email]> wrote:
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd

#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Steffan A. Cline
As far as I can see the only thing NOT making it a bug fix is the admin
notification of email queue swelling. Maybe the additional platforms
supported? I'm not so sure I call CentOS 4.6->5.5 a feature.

Other than that, its totally a bug fix.

Price model should be the same as 8.5, PERIOD.


Thanks

Steffan

---------------------------------------------------------------
T E L  6 0 2 . 7 9 3 . 0 0 1 4 | F A X  6 0 2 . 9 7 1 . 1 6 9 4
Steffan A. Cline  
[hidden email]                             Phoenix, Az
http://www.ExecuChoice.net                                  USA
AIM : SteffanC          ICQ : 57234309
YAHOO : Steffan_Cline   MSN : [hidden email]
GOOGLE: Steffan.Cline             Lasso Partner Alliance Member
---------------------------------------------------------------





On 3/18/11 6:35 AM, "Ke Carlton" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>It seems frankly wrong to force people into a new licensing agreement
>for a point release that is effectively a bug fix release.
>
>Most of the fixes are critical and Lassosoft has effectively taken a
>Microsoft approach (want the fixes pay for the new OS). However it's
>worse as there's no new OS involved and the rules have been so
>dramatically changed that previous business plans seem to have
>effectively been nullified.
>
>Ke
>
>On 18 March 2011 13:02, Chris Wik <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you
>>like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>>
>> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft
>>can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>>
>> Chris Wik
>> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>



#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Brian K. Middendorf
On Mar 18, 2011, at 6:48 AM, Steffan A. Cline wrote:

> As far as I can see the only thing NOT making it a bug fix is the admin
> notification of email queue swelling. Maybe the additional platforms
> supported? I'm not so sure I call CentOS 4.6->5.5 a feature.
>
> Other than that, its totally a bug fix.
>
> Price model should be the same as 8.5, PERIOD.

Wait until the page view pricing model for the online documentation is added to the store...

-brian.




#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Brad Lindsay-2
The thing that LassoSoft is pushing is the Leased-Licensing model. If you "upgrade" to 8.6 using that model, you can use that license for 8.6 or for 9. I see this as a way to ease people off of 8.5 to Lasso 9. Now, this isn't going to be what *everyone* wants, but I can see the appeal. For my company, we generally only run one Lasso site per server (though we are now running a server with 2 Lasso 9 sites).  We will keep our 8.5 servers running as they are and upgrade to 9 as we migrate our software. I'm not sure which licensing model we will choose, Sean wasn't kidding when he said LassoSoft was going to be *strongly* incentivizing the new leased options. (Note, we may are not a hosting provider, but I think we may end up using that leased-license model instead of the "Master License" model.)

Brad
#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

stevepiercy
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
On 3/18/11 at 2:02 PM, [hidden email] (Chris Wik) pronounced:

>I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied
>up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed
>some long standing bugs.

For me, I don't need to upgrade to 8.6 at this time.  None of my
sites have suffered from the bugs that have been fixed in 8.6,
or I found hacks and workarounds to handle the issues.

If however I *did* need to upgrade, I own a CLD license
(pending) for 3 instances, which I could deploy one each on two
different VMs and have one remaining.  The model works for me.

But if I did not own a CLD license and I needed to upgrade to
8.6, then I would expect the ISP to deploy an instance for me at
the same rate I currently pay for 8.5.x.

The average cost of a Perpetual license ranges like this:

     No discounts for upgrading (new 8.6 licenses)
     $110-500 per instance depending on volume

     With 8.5-8.6 discounts
     $33-150 per instance depending on volume

     Do the math for older versions.

     Plus updates at an additional cost, TBD.

The average cost of a Master license ranges like this:

     No discounts apply for upgrading to any Master license.
     $8-10/month per 8.6 instance depending on volume

     All updates are free.

Am I missing any hidden costs?  If not, that seems fair and
reasonable to me.

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

stevepiercy
In reply to this post by Brad Lindsay-2
On 3/18/11 at 10:32 AM, [hidden email] (Brad Lindsay) pronounced:

>The thing that LassoSoft is pushing is the Leased-Licensing
>model. If you "upgrade" to 8.6 using that model, you can use
>that license for 8.6 or for 9.

Indeed.  You will not be stuck with a dead license when you
decommission old versions.  Reduce, reuse, recycle.

>(Note, we may are not a hosting provider, but I think we may end up
>using that leased-license model instead of the "Master License" model.)

They are the synonymous.  Lease == Pay as you go == Master License

Anyway, I think what is missing here are the hard dollar figures
in a single page, and as a result few have done the math for
their situation.  Prices are hidden beneath a pulldown menu in
the store, which makes doing the math a little cumbersome.  
Suggest LS provide a matrix or price sheet.  Calculators suck.  
Lay it all out please.

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Chris Wik-4
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
On 18.03.2011, at 15:35, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote:

> The average cost of a Perpetual license ranges like this:
>
>    No discounts for upgrading (new 8.6 licenses)
>    $110-500 per instance depending on volume

A new license for 8.5 was $650, right? With 40 sites defined (eg. an average shared hosting server), that works out to $16.25 per site - for a perpetual, non-expiring license.

To get an equivalent 8.6 or 9 server with a Perpetual License, we're looking at 2 x 25 instance licenses, which is $5198 (CAD), or $103.96 per site. That is an absolutely massive increase from $16.25 (US).

> The average cost of a Master license ranges like this:
>
>    No discounts apply for upgrading to any Master license.
>    $8-10/month per 8.6 instance depending on volume
>
>    All updates are free.

With the Hosting Provider model, 40 instances would cost us $9.975 CAD per month per instance. If we estimate the useful lifetime of a perpetual license is 3 years (conservative), then the equivalent price of a leased instance license works out at $359.10 over the 3 years. Again, a massive increase from $16.25.

I understand that we get a huge increase in flexibility, free upgrades, etc., but I'm yet to be convinced that this warrants an approximately 2209% price increase.

> Am I missing any hidden costs?  If not, that seems fair and reasonable to me.


Do you agree with my calculations above? Do you still agree that it's fair and reasonable?

--
Chris Wik
Anu Internet Services Ltd


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

decorior
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
A few observations.

First, based on the activity on this list Lasso is more of a club now than a community. It is a very small list of  people that are active.

Second, Sean had to come out with a product he could sell. There was no way he could attract new customers without supporting a modern OS. So he was dead in the water. So he had to introduce a new model right away.

Third, we have been living with the 8.5 problems for so long that we either got used to them or moved to another platform. So, the vast majority of lasso customers will probably not do anything. Quite frankly, if you have heavy traffic, I am not sure I would want to upgrade right now, since the release has now been battle tested with a very large community.

Fourth, Sean has to decide if he wants to keep some people in the "club." Unlike a community, a club has certain people you want to keep...think NFL. I think that Sean needs to contact certain people and give then a "special" deal to stay happy and on-board. (sworn to secrecy :-). This gives him time to evaluate the Lasso 9 model, but not have to do anything free. I could probably name the people who require this.

Fifth, Lasso has a long way to go to be competitive. Sean has already stated that Lasso was not sustainable. In fact, he probably acquired it for self-preservation. He seems like a good businessman, so he had to figure a scenario where we "all" jumped ship, yet he could still move forward to a competitive new product. We have all looked at alternatives, and  without a known framework associated with Lasso it id probably going to take a while. By known, I mean I can buy a book on Amazon (e.g. Zend, Rails, Lift).

Sixth, the new pricing model discourages the "site" concept. It is a little viral drug related. It was introduced as a new feature which we jumped on, only to be penalized for it. Clearly it is used by a lot of people, which is why Sean needs to call a few people.

Seven, lasso will be more expensive for most of us. The pricing is designed to scale with our businesses. Just like Zend, it is designed that way. However, Zend has its free competitor (CakePHP), so Lasso is going to have to be very, very good at differentiation to compete.

Lastly, I had commented privately about the speed tests when Lasso 9 was released, but since it was not changed I am adding it. The speed tests are very misleading since both the Ruby and Python numbers are based on old versions. A more up to date comparison might cause Sean to ponder about the positioning of Lasso in the market.

Deco

On Mar 18, 2011, at 7:02 AM, Chris Wik wrote:

> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.
>
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
> --
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>

Deco Rior
[hidden email]

O:(720) 207-2806
F:(303) 942-7417

TennisSource.Net
software to power your tennis facility


This electronic mail message is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and privileged information.   Any unauthorized review, use, printing, copying, retention, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email message to the sender and delete all copies of this message. Thank you


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Ke Carlton-3
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
Er no, all of those instances would need to run under the *same* vm or
piece of hardware — according to the other thread...

Still work for you?

Ke

On 18 March 2011 14:35, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If however I *did* need to upgrade, I own a CLD license (pending) for 3
> instances, which I could deploy one each on two different VMs and have one
> remaining.  The model works for me.

#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

John May-2
In reply to this post by Ke Carlton-3
I totally agree.

Of course, I also think it is wrong to charge per-instance for Lasso 9
when it has no multi-site (instance) functionality built into it like 8.x.

FYI, all of this licensing mumbo-jumbo has made us decide to not offer
Lasso 8.6 and later on our shared hosting accounts.  Of course, we will
offer and support it on our virtual dedicated servers.

        - John


On 3/18/11 9:35 AM, Ke Carlton wrote:

> It seems frankly wrong to force people into a new licensing
> agreement for a point release that is effectively a bug fix release.
>
> Most of the fixes are critical and Lassosoft has effectively taken a
> Microsoft approach (want the fixes pay for the new OS). However it's
> worse as there's no new OS involved and the rules have been so
> dramatically changed that previous business plans seem to have
> effectively been nullified.
>
> Ke
>
> On 18 March 2011 13:02, Chris Wik<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what
>> you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>>
>> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so
>> LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>>
>> Chris Wik Anu Internet Services Ltd
>


--

-------------------------------------------------------------------
John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/
Point In Space Internet Solutions             [hidden email]

              Twitter: http://twitter.com/pointinspace/
            Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/PointInSpace/

         Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
           on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers


#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Lasso 8.6 licensing

Marc Vos
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
+1

- -
Marc

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 mrt. 2011, at 14:02, Chris Wik <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a very strong opinion that the Lasso 8.6 licensing needs to stay the same as 8.5, with a fixed upgrade price. Ie. no per-instance (Lasso Site) licensing and no monthly subscriptions, just a one-time upgrade fee.
>
> If the model changes, a large majority of Lasso 8.5 customers are not going to upgrade. Us included - we can't afford to - many of our smaller accounts pay less than $15 per month, and I know this is true for other hosting companies too. We would be losing money on those accounts by upgrading. And I'm not just talking about hosting customers, I've spoken to many of my customers who run their own 8.5 servers and they too will not be upgrading, due to the increased cost and complexity.
>
> I think that's a real shame, because we would all have ponied up $199 (+- 100) for a plain and simple 8.6 upgrade which fixed some long standing bugs.
>
> LassoSoft, I implore you, change the 8.6 licensing ASAP. Do what you like with 9, but don't change the 8 model.
>
> If others on this list agree, please voice your support, so LassoSoft can properly judge the demand from their loyal clients.
>
> --
> Chris Wik
> Anu Internet Services Ltd
>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>

#############################################################
This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

123