Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

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Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Laurent Gigon
Hi,

Is that possible to install Lasso 6 on EC2 ?

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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Rachel Guthrie
Hi Laurent,

While delighted to hear that your Lasso 6 is still going well to the point where you want to move it, what you are asking is impossible.

EC2 is a current technology platform, Lasso 6 was built against a target of OSX 10.2… circa 2002
http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html <http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html>
Wow, and it was more expensive back then too!

There are a myriad of technological and performance improvements you are missing out on by staying with Lasso 6. This chat forum is a great place for advice on how to upgrade. In some cases, a line for line upgrade is not advisable as a re-architecture and deployment of object-oriented code can also vastly improve performance.

Cheers
Rachel Guthrie
LassoSoft


> On Mar 29, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Is that possible to install Lasso 6 on EC2 ?
>
> #############################################################
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Marc Pope-2
Most all of lasso 6 code will run on 8.x.. heck I have a lot of lasso 3 code still running on 8. It wouldn't take much to get it up to date.

> On Apr 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rachel Guthrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Laurent,
>
> While delighted to hear that your Lasso 6 is still going well to the point where you want to move it, what you are asking is impossible.
>
> EC2 is a current technology platform, Lasso 6 was built against a target of OSX 10.2… circa 2002
> http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html <http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html>
> Wow, and it was more expensive back then too!
>
> There are a myriad of technological and performance improvements you are missing out on by staying with Lasso 6. This chat forum is a great place for advice on how to upgrade. In some cases, a line for line upgrade is not advisable as a re-architecture and deployment of object-oriented code can also vastly improve performance.
>
> Cheers
> Rachel Guthrie
> LassoSoft
>
>
>> On Mar 29, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is that possible to install Lasso 6 on EC2 ?
>>
>> #############################################################
>>
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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>
>
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Laurent Gigon
Sorry for the confusion, I mean Lasso 8.6

Le 26 avr. 2017 12:36, "Marc Pope" <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Most all of lasso 6 code will run on 8.x.. heck I have a lot of lasso 3
> code still running on 8. It wouldn't take much to get it up to date.
>
> > On Apr 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rachel Guthrie <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Laurent,
> >
> > While delighted to hear that your Lasso 6 is still going well to the
> point where you want to move it, what you are asking is impossible.
> >
> > EC2 is a current technology platform, Lasso 6 was built against a target
> of OSX 10.2… circa 2002
> > http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html <
> http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html>
> > Wow, and it was more expensive back then too!
> >
> > There are a myriad of technological and performance improvements you are
> missing out on by staying with Lasso 6. This chat forum is a great place
> for advice on how to upgrade. In some cases, a line for line upgrade is not
> advisable as a re-architecture and deployment of object-oriented code can
> also vastly improve performance.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Rachel Guthrie
> > LassoSoft
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 29, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Is that possible to install Lasso 6 on EC2 ?
> >>
> >> #############################################################
> >>
> >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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> >> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
> >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> >> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
> >
> >
> > #############################################################
> >
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Marc Pope-2
Then yes it runs. If you need help setting it up, email me. I do it everyday.

Marc

> On Apr 27, 2017, at 8:48 AM, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the confusion, I mean Lasso 8.6
>
> Le 26 avr. 2017 12:36, "Marc Pope" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> Most all of lasso 6 code will run on 8.x.. heck I have a lot of lasso 3
>> code still running on 8. It wouldn't take much to get it up to date.
>>
>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rachel Guthrie <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Laurent,
>>>
>>> While delighted to hear that your Lasso 6 is still going well to the
>> point where you want to move it, what you are asking is impossible.
>>>
>>> EC2 is a current technology platform, Lasso 6 was built against a target
>> of OSX 10.2… circa 2002
>>> http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html <
>> http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html>
>>> Wow, and it was more expensive back then too!
>>>
>>> There are a myriad of technological and performance improvements you are
>> missing out on by staying with Lasso 6. This chat forum is a great place
>> for advice on how to upgrade. In some cases, a line for line upgrade is not
>> advisable as a re-architecture and deployment of object-oriented code can
>> also vastly improve performance.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Rachel Guthrie
>>> LassoSoft
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 29, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Is that possible to install Lasso 6 on EC2 ?
>>>>
>>>> #############################################################
>>>>
>>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>> #############################################################
>>>
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
>>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
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>>
>> #############################################################
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Alex Betz-3
I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out, just for
the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone still
running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business who
depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably up to
date with technology and that is not possible with technology outdated by
well over 10 years.

And do yourself a favour and make the jump to lasso  9 rather than 8! Why
go from outrageously obsolete to pretty outdated, rather than almost up to
date. But then again, you might as well ask yourself  whether to stick with
lasso at all - I am running the constant fear that lasso will be 'end of
lined' because it is itself not commercially viable anymore. When you look
at the lassosoft website you certainly do not get the impression that a
vibrant company/community behind it and that is such a shame. The CEOs blog
is almost as outdated as your code must be. Admiral Sean Stephens has
already abandoned ship  - for his new love perfect.org? Unfortunately,
captain Kyle Jessup and lieutenant Jonathan Guthrie followed and the vessel
is now drifting in stormy seas.

Not looking good guys!

Alex

PS I do not intend to offend anyone with my runt - I am just a bit upset
and worried about the current state and  future of lasso. Lasso is such a
nice language and it is currently still possible to build blazingly fast up
to date websites, but there are some serious limitations which will limit
what will be possible in future without continued development of  Lasso.

On 27 April 2017 at 14:56, Marc Pope <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Then yes it runs. If you need help setting it up, email me. I do it
> everyday.
>
> Marc
>
> > On Apr 27, 2017, at 8:48 AM, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry for the confusion, I mean Lasso 8.6
> >
> > Le 26 avr. 2017 12:36, "Marc Pope" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >
> >> Most all of lasso 6 code will run on 8.x.. heck I have a lot of lasso 3
> >> code still running on 8. It wouldn't take much to get it up to date.
> >>
> >>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rachel Guthrie <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Laurent,
> >>>
> >>> While delighted to hear that your Lasso 6 is still going well to the
> >> point where you want to move it, what you are asking is impossible.
> >>>
> >>> EC2 is a current technology platform, Lasso 6 was built against a
> target
> >> of OSX 10.2… circa 2002
> >>> http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html <
> >> http://www.macworld.com/article/1006724/lasso.html>
> >>> Wow, and it was more expensive back then too!
> >>>
> >>> There are a myriad of technological and performance improvements you
> are
> >> missing out on by staying with Lasso 6. This chat forum is a great place
> >> for advice on how to upgrade. In some cases, a line for line upgrade is
> not
> >> advisable as a re-architecture and deployment of object-oriented code
> can
> >> also vastly improve performance.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Rachel Guthrie
> >>> LassoSoft
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Mar 29, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> Is that possible to install Lasso 6 on EC2 ?
> >>>>
> >>>> #############################################################
> >>>>
> >>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> >>>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
> >>>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
> >>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> >>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> #############################################################
> >>>
> >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> >>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
> >>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> >>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
> >>
> >> #############################################################
> >>
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> >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
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> >
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Jolle Carlestam-2
You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent. Laurent admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.

Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to Lasso 9.

HDB
Jolle

> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>
> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out, just for
> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone still
> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business who
> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably up to
> date with technology and that is not possible with technology outdated by
> well over 10 years.


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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Alex Betz-3
LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to let my
lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
(wholeheartedly) developed anymore?

Best
Alex

On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent. Laurent
> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>
> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to Lasso 9.
>
> HDB
> Jolle
>
> > 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
> > upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out, just for
> > the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
> still
> > running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business who
> > depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably up to
> > date with technology and that is not possible with technology outdated by
> > well over 10 years.
>
>
> #############################################################
>
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>   the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
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>

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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Peter D Bethke
Alex,

Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly rational business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be not my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit practice and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important, buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d prefer to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to say that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle and a few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some cool features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer has 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no one noticed?

I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to them.

I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I think I have earned some perspective.

Peter

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to let my
> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>
> Best
> Alex
>
> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent. Laurent
>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>>
>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to Lasso 9.
>>
>> HDB
>> Jolle
>>
>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out, just for
>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
>> still
>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business who
>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably up to
>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology outdated by
>>> well over 10 years.
>>
>>
>> #############################################################
>>
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>
>
> #############################################################
>
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> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

John May-2
+100

        - John


On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:

> Alex,
>
> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly rational business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be not my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit practice and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important, buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d prefer to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to say that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle and a few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some cool features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer has 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no one noticed?
>
> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to them.
>
> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I think I have earned some perspective.
>
> Peter
>
>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to let my
>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>>
>> Best
>> Alex
>>
>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent. Laurent
>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>>>
>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to Lasso 9.
>>>
>>> HDB
>>> Jolle
>>>
>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out, just for
>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
>>> still
>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business who
>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably up to
>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology outdated by
>>>> well over 10 years.


--

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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Stephen Smiroldo-4
I’ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?

I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly millions of lines of code!  I’m one web guy where I work and can’t put in the time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I’ve used Lasso9 enough to know there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.  

What I would love to see is a more “freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as something new like “LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as OS X and other Linux boxes) that’s completely/seamlessly backward compatible with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs. Something similar to this...


FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance

Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site

Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site

Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site

Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site

Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits


The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface should allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.

I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with just 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.  Rather, they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.

Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!


__________________________
Stephen Smiroldo
StudioThought LLC
Website Design & Digital Marketing
http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/>




> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> +100
>
> - John
>
>
> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
>> Alex,
>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly rational business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be not my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit practice and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important, buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d prefer to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to say that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle and a few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some cool features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer has 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no one noticed?
>> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to them.
>> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I think I have earned some perspective.
>> Peter
>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to let my
>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent. Laurent
>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>>>>
>>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to Lasso 9.
>>>>
>>>> HDB
>>>> Jolle
>>>>
>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out, just for
>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
>>>> still
>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business who
>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably up to
>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology outdated by
>>>>> well over 10 years.
>
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/>
> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
>
>        Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
>          on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
>
>
> #############################################################
>
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com <http://www.lassotalk.com/>
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>


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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Laurent Gigon
So, how can we run Lasso 8.6 on EC2 since installation fails due to
insufficient privileges?

2017-04-28 11:33 GMT-04:00 Stephen Smiroldo <[hidden email]>:

> I’ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?
>
> I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly millions of lines of code!  I’m one web guy where I work and can’t put in the time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I’ve used Lasso9 enough to know there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.
>
> What I would love to see is a more “freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as something new like “LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as OS X and other Linux boxes) that’s completely/seamlessly backward compatible with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs. Something similar to this...
>
>
> FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance
>
> Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site
>
> Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site
>
> Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site
>
> Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site
>
> Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits
>
>
> The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface should allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.
>
> I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with just 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.  Rather, they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.
>
> Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!
>
>
> __________________________
> Stephen Smiroldo
> StudioThought LLC
> Website Design & Digital Marketing
> http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/>
>
>
>
>
>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> +100
>>
>>       - John
>>
>>
>> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
>>> Alex,
>>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly rational business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be not my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit practice and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important, buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d prefer to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to say that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle and a few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some cool features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer has 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no one noticed?
>>> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to them.
>>> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I think I have earned some perspective.
>>> Peter
>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to let my
>>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
>>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent. Laurent
>>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>>>>>
>>>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to Lasso 9.
>>>>>
>>>>> HDB
>>>>> Jolle
>>>>>
>>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
>>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out, just for
>>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
>>>>> still
>>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business who
>>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably up to
>>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology outdated by
>>>>>> well over 10 years.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/>
>> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
>>
>>        Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
>>          on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
>>
>>
>> #############################################################
>>
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com <http://www.lassotalk.com/>
>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>
> #############################################################
>
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>   the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Alex Betz-3
It is rather amazing that something as good as lasso is dying a slow death.
I've just recoded my front end with polymer and lasso. It uses service
workers, json-ld, web components, and is fast and 100% responsive on any
device with one code base. After the initial load only JSON and new parts
are loaded. Whilst it IS NOT a progressive web app or a single page app it
certainly feels as snappy as one. If you are curious have a look at
https://www.schulranzen.com

The routing is done server side with all the data loaded from elastic
search. It is currently running on a single dedicated server and gets a few
million page views - robots not included. The SEMRush bot hit it with a few
hundred thousand hits in VERY short time and I didn't even realize until
afterwards when my log index ate 13GB of memory.

PLEASE DON'T LET LASSO DIE! OPEN SOURCE IT WITH A BETTER BUSINESS MODEL!

Alex

On 28 April 2017 at 17:06, Laurent G <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, how can we run Lasso 8.6 on EC2 since installation fails due to
> insufficient privileges?
>
> 2017-04-28 11:33 GMT-04:00 Stephen Smiroldo <[hidden email]>:
> > I’ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our
> ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?
> >
> > I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great
> product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly millions
> of lines of code!  I’m one web guy where I work and can’t put in the
> time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I’ve used Lasso9 enough to know
> there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to
> translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.
> >
> > What I would love to see is a more “freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as
> something new like “LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as OS X
> and other Linux boxes) that’s completely/seamlessly backward compatible
> with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs. Something
> similar to this...
> >
> >
> > FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance
> >
> > Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site
> >
> > Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site
> >
> > Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site
> >
> > Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site
> >
> > Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits
> >
> >
> > The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be
> relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface should
> allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and
> upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.
> >
> > I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with just
> 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above
> pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.  Rather,
> they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.
> >
> > Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!
> >
> >
> > __________________________
> > Stephen Smiroldo
> > StudioThought LLC
> > Website Design & Digital Marketing
> > http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> +100
> >>
> >>       - John
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
> >>> Alex,
> >>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more
> than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks
> have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running
> legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my
> legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual
> licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of
> perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted
> 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve
> used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly rational
> business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be not
> my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my
> (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit practice
> and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting
> sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its
> creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important,
> buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so
> much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we
> benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d prefer
> to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to say
> that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle and a
> few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby
> language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some cool
> features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made
> its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer has
> 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with
> which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went
> elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no one
> noticed?
> >>> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit
> - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and
> Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to them.
> >>> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I
> think I have earned some perspective.
> >>> Peter
> >>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to
> let my
> >>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
> >>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>> Alex
> >>>>
> >>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent.
> Laurent
> >>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to
> Lasso 9.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HDB
> >>>>> Jolle
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
> >>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out,
> just for
> >>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
> >>>>> still
> >>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business
> who
> >>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably
> up to
> >>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology
> outdated by
> >>>>>> well over 10 years.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/ <
> http://www.pointinspace.com/>
> >> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
> >>
> >>        Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
> >>          on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
> >>
> >>
> >> #############################################################
> >>
> >> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> >> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>
> >> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com <
> http://www.lassotalk.com/>
> >> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >
> >
> > #############################################################
> >
> > This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> >   the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
> > Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
> > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> > Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>
> #############################################################
>
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>   the mailing list Lasso [hidden email]
> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Peter D Bethke
Alex,

I often find that a lot of people rally around making something open source, but don’t consider the consequences. Lets say Lassosoft open-sources 8.5.6. The core engine is written in C primarily, IIRC. So, its not trivial to maintain. Are there enough Lasso programmers also proficient in C to even maintain it? Further, you can bet that Lassosoft won’t open source Lasso 9 because, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect a lot of it ended up re-imagined in Perfect, and thats IP they don’t want to let go of.

Lassosoft has kept Lasso on life support for years, and I mean years. Trust me, we’ve discussed this topic many times over the years. I just don’t think its viable. The only “open source” option which might make sense is if they simply removed the serial number and ip limits from LP 8.5.x.

What would be terrific is if they also did so with 8.6, which was the version that finally knocked out some issues that had been plaguing lasso for years, such as DNS deafness and updated IMAP support, etc. But because that version is tied in with their licensing/pingback system, I don’t think thats going to happen either.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see an unexpected resurgence of Lasso. I’ve built some pretty extensive applications myself with it. But I’m not holding my breath.

Peter

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It is rather amazing that something as good as lasso is dying a slow death.
> I've just recoded my front end with polymer and lasso. It uses service
> workers, json-ld, web components, and is fast and 100% responsive on any
> device with one code base. After the initial load only JSON and new parts
> are loaded. Whilst it IS NOT a progressive web app or a single page app it
> certainly feels as snappy as one. If you are curious have a look at
> https://www.schulranzen.com <https://www.schulranzen.com/>
>
> The routing is done server side with all the data loaded from elastic
> search. It is currently running on a single dedicated server and gets a few
> million page views - robots not included. The SEMRush bot hit it with a few
> hundred thousand hits in VERY short time and I didn't even realize until
> afterwards when my log index ate 13GB of memory.
>
> PLEASE DON'T LET LASSO DIE! OPEN SOURCE IT WITH A BETTER BUSINESS MODEL!
>
> Alex
>
> On 28 April 2017 at 17:06, Laurent G <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> So, how can we run Lasso 8.6 on EC2 since installation fails due to
>> insufficient privileges?
>>
>> 2017-04-28 11:33 GMT-04:00 Stephen Smiroldo <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>> I’ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our
>> ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?
>>>
>>> I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great
>> product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly millions
>> of lines of code!  I’m one web guy where I work and can’t put in the
>> time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I’ve used Lasso9 enough to know
>> there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to
>> translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.
>>>
>>> What I would love to see is a more “freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as
>> something new like “LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as OS X
>> and other Linux boxes) that’s completely/seamlessly backward compatible
>> with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs. Something
>> similar to this...
>>>
>>>
>>> FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance
>>>
>>> Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site
>>>
>>> Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site
>>>
>>> Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site
>>>
>>> Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site
>>>
>>> Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits
>>>
>>>
>>> The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be
>> relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface should
>> allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and
>> upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.
>>>
>>> I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with just
>> 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above
>> pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.  Rather,
>> they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.
>>>
>>> Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________
>>> Stephen Smiroldo
>>> StudioThought LLC
>>> Website Design & Digital Marketing
>>> http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/> <http://www.studiothought.com/ <http://www.studiothought.com/>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +100
>>>>
>>>>      - John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
>>>>> Alex,
>>>>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more
>> than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks
>> have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running
>> legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my
>> legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual
>> licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of
>> perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted
>> 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve
>> used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly rational
>> business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be not
>> my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my
>> (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit practice
>> and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting
>> sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its
>> creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important,
>> buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so
>> much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we
>> benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d prefer
>> to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to say
>> that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle and a
>> few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby
>> language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some cool
>> features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made
>> its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer has
>> 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with
>> which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went
>> elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no one
>> noticed?
>>>>> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit
>> - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and
>> Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to them.
>>>>> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I
>> think I have earned some perspective.
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to
>> let my
>>>>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
>>>>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best
>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent.
>> Laurent
>>>>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to
>> Lasso 9.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HDB
>>>>>>> Jolle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
>>>>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out,
>> just for
>>>>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business
>> who
>>>>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably
>> up to
>>>>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology
>> outdated by
>>>>>>>> well over 10 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/> <
>> http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/>>
>>>> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
>>>>
>>>>       Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
>>>>         on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> #############################################################
>>>>
>>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> <mailto:
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com <http://www.lassotalk.com/> <
>> http://www.lassotalk.com/ <http://www.lassotalk.com/>>
>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>
>>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #############################################################
>>>
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Stephen Smiroldo-4
I don’t like the open-source idea myself but think a “freemium” concept could work. Especially coupled with support of one or more major hosting companies and rebranding to something else (like LOOP)!  But maybe I’m not thinking through the implications either??



> On Apr 28, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Peter D Bethke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Alex,
>
> I often find that a lot of people rally around making something open source, but don’t consider the consequences. Lets say Lassosoft open-sources 8.5.6. The core engine is written in C primarily, IIRC. So, its not trivial to maintain. Are there enough Lasso programmers also proficient in C to even maintain it? Further, you can bet that Lassosoft won’t open source Lasso 9 because, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect a lot of it ended up re-imagined in Perfect, and thats IP they don’t want to let go of.
>
> Lassosoft has kept Lasso on life support for years, and I mean years. Trust me, we’ve discussed this topic many times over the years. I just don’t think its viable. The only “open source” option which might make sense is if they simply removed the serial number and ip limits from LP 8.5.x.
>
> What would be terrific is if they also did so with 8.6, which was the version that finally knocked out some issues that had been plaguing lasso for years, such as DNS deafness and updated IMAP support, etc. But because that version is tied in with their licensing/pingback system, I don’t think thats going to happen either.
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see an unexpected resurgence of Lasso. I’ve built some pretty extensive applications myself with it. But I’m not holding my breath.
>
> Peter
>
>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It is rather amazing that something as good as lasso is dying a slow death.
>> I've just recoded my front end with polymer and lasso. It uses service
>> workers, json-ld, web components, and is fast and 100% responsive on any
>> device with one code base. After the initial load only JSON and new parts
>> are loaded. Whilst it IS NOT a progressive web app or a single page app it
>> certainly feels as snappy as one. If you are curious have a look at
>> https://www.schulranzen.com <https://www.schulranzen.com/>
>>
>> The routing is done server side with all the data loaded from elastic
>> search. It is currently running on a single dedicated server and gets a few
>> million page views - robots not included. The SEMRush bot hit it with a few
>> hundred thousand hits in VERY short time and I didn't even realize until
>> afterwards when my log index ate 13GB of memory.
>>
>> PLEASE DON'T LET LASSO DIE! OPEN SOURCE IT WITH A BETTER BUSINESS MODEL!
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 28 April 2017 at 17:06, Laurent G <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>> So, how can we run Lasso 8.6 on EC2 since installation fails due to
>>> insufficient privileges?
>>>
>>> 2017-04-28 11:33 GMT-04:00 Stephen Smiroldo <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>>> I’ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our
>>> ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?
>>>>
>>>> I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great
>>> product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly millions
>>> of lines of code!  I’m one web guy where I work and can’t put in the
>>> time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I’ve used Lasso9 enough to know
>>> there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to
>>> translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.
>>>>
>>>> What I would love to see is a more “freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as
>>> something new like “LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as OS X
>>> and other Linux boxes) that’s completely/seamlessly backward compatible
>>> with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs. Something
>>> similar to this...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance
>>>>
>>>> Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be
>>> relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface should
>>> allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and
>>> upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.
>>>>
>>>> I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with just
>>> 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above
>>> pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.  Rather,
>>> they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________
>>>> Stephen Smiroldo
>>>> StudioThought LLC
>>>> Website Design & Digital Marketing
>>>> http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/> <http://www.studiothought.com/ <http://www.studiothought.com/>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> +100
>>>>>
>>>>>     - John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
>>>>>> Alex,
>>>>>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more
>>> than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks
>>> have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running
>>> legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my
>>> legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual
>>> licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of
>>> perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted
>>> 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve
>>> used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly rational
>>> business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be not
>>> my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my
>>> (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit practice
>>> and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting
>>> sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its
>>> creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important,
>>> buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so
>>> much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we
>>> benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d prefer
>>> to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to say
>>> that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle and a
>>> few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby
>>> language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some cool
>>> features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made
>>> its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer has
>>> 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with
>>> which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went
>>> elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no one
>>> noticed?
>>>>>> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit
>>> - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and
>>> Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to them.
>>>>>> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I
>>> think I have earned some perspective.
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to
>>> let my
>>>>>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
>>>>>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best
>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent.
>>> Laurent
>>>>>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to
>>> Lasso 9.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HDB
>>>>>>>> Jolle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable to
>>>>>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out,
>>> just for
>>>>>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And anyone
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business
>>> who
>>>>>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be reasonably
>>> up to
>>>>>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology
>>> outdated by
>>>>>>>>> well over 10 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/> <
>>> http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/>>
>>>>> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
>>>>>
>>>>>      Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
>>>>>        on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> #############################################################
>>>>>
>>>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>>>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> <mailto:
>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com <http://www.lassotalk.com/> <
>>> http://www.lassotalk.com/ <http://www.lassotalk.com/>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>
>>>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Alex Betz-3
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
Peter, I've been using lasso for almost as long as you are (due to one of
those twists of life I was rather passive on the list) Lasso suffered from
a lack of traction long before it was taken over by treefrog. At one point
in time it was (at least in principle) the best of the pack. I think that
lack of proper documentation  and poor error handling were the key problem
that led to its demise. Look at elastic.co. Very clear business model. The
big companies happily carry the brunt of the cost. You can do virtually
anything with the free version, but it is much less convenient. Enough that
there comes a point where you pay simply because you want to make life
easier for yourself.

I guess it is a freemium model. It will be interesting to see if perfect.org
will repeat the same  mistakes. Has anybody here been using it?

Alex

On 28 April 2017 at 19:05, Peter D Bethke <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alex,
>
> I often find that a lot of people rally around making something open
> source, but don’t consider the consequences. Lets say Lassosoft
> open-sources 8.5.6. The core engine is written in C primarily, IIRC. So,
> its not trivial to maintain. Are there enough Lasso programmers also
> proficient in C to even maintain it? Further, you can bet that Lassosoft
> won’t open source Lasso 9 because, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect a lot
> of it ended up re-imagined in Perfect, and thats IP they don’t want to let
> go of.
>
> Lassosoft has kept Lasso on life support for years, and I mean years.
> Trust me, we’ve discussed this topic many times over the years. I just
> don’t think its viable. The only “open source” option which might make
> sense is if they simply removed the serial number and ip limits from LP
> 8.5.x.
>
> What would be terrific is if they also did so with 8.6, which was the
> version that finally knocked out some issues that had been plaguing lasso
> for years, such as DNS deafness and updated IMAP support, etc. But because
> that version is tied in with their licensing/pingback system, I don’t think
> thats going to happen either.
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see an unexpected resurgence of Lasso.
> I’ve built some pretty extensive applications myself with it. But I’m not
> holding my breath.
>
> Peter
>
> > On Apr 28, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > It is rather amazing that something as good as lasso is dying a slow
> death.
> > I've just recoded my front end with polymer and lasso. It uses service
> > workers, json-ld, web components, and is fast and 100% responsive on any
> > device with one code base. After the initial load only JSON and new parts
> > are loaded. Whilst it IS NOT a progressive web app or a single page app
> it
> > certainly feels as snappy as one. If you are curious have a look at
> > https://www.schulranzen.com <https://www.schulranzen.com/>
> >
> > The routing is done server side with all the data loaded from elastic
> > search. It is currently running on a single dedicated server and gets a
> few
> > million page views - robots not included. The SEMRush bot hit it with a
> few
> > hundred thousand hits in VERY short time and I didn't even realize until
> > afterwards when my log index ate 13GB of memory.
> >
> > PLEASE DON'T LET LASSO DIE! OPEN SOURCE IT WITH A BETTER BUSINESS MODEL!
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On 28 April 2017 at 17:06, Laurent G <[hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>> wrote:
> >
> >> So, how can we run Lasso 8.6 on EC2 since installation fails due to
> >> insufficient privileges?
> >>
> >> 2017-04-28 11:33 GMT-04:00 Stephen Smiroldo <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
> >>> I’ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our
> >> ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?
> >>>
> >>> I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great
> >> product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly
> millions
> >> of lines of code!  I’m one web guy where I work and can’t put in the
> >> time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I’ve used Lasso9 enough to know
> >> there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to
> >> translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.
> >>>
> >>> What I would love to see is a more “freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as
> >> something new like “LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as
> OS X
> >> and other Linux boxes) that’s completely/seamlessly backward compatible
> >> with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs. Something
> >> similar to this...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance
> >>>
> >>> Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site
> >>>
> >>> Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site
> >>>
> >>> Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site
> >>>
> >>> Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site
> >>>
> >>> Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be
> >> relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface
> should
> >> allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and
> >> upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.
> >>>
> >>> I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with
> just
> >> 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above
> >> pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.
> Rather,
> >> they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __________________________
> >>> Stephen Smiroldo
> >>> StudioThought LLC
> >>> Website Design & Digital Marketing
> >>> http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/> <
> http://www.studiothought.com/ <http://www.studiothought.com/>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> +100
> >>>>
> >>>>      - John
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
> >>>>> Alex,
> >>>>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more
> >> than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks
> >> have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running
> >> legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my
> >> legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual
> >> licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of
> >> perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted
> >> 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve
> >> used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly
> rational
> >> business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be
> not
> >> my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my
> >> (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit
> practice
> >> and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting
> >> sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its
> >> creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important,
> >> buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so
> >> much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we
> >> benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d
> prefer
> >> to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to
> say
> >> that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle
> and a
> >> few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby
> >> language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some
> cool
> >> features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made
> >> its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer
> has
> >> 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with
> >> which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went
> >> elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no
> one
> >> noticed?
> >>>>> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit
> >> - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and
> >> Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to
> them.
> >>>>> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I
> >> think I have earned some perspective.
> >>>>> Peter
> >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to
> >> let my
> >>>>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
> >>>>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best
> >>>>>> Alex
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent.
> >> Laurent
> >>>>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to
> >> Lasso 9.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> HDB
> >>>>>>> Jolle
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable
> to
> >>>>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out,
> >> just for
> >>>>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And
> anyone
> >>>>>>> still
> >>>>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business
> >> who
> >>>>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be
> reasonably
> >> up to
> >>>>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology
> >> outdated by
> >>>>>>>> well over 10 years.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/ <
> http://www.pointinspace.com/> <
> >> http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/>>
> >>>> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
> >>>>
> >>>>       Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
> >>>>         on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> #############################################################
> >>>>
> >>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> >>>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]> <mailto:
> >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >>>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com <
> http://www.lassotalk.com/> <
> >> http://www.lassotalk.com/ <http://www.lassotalk.com/>>
> >>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:
> [hidden email]>>>
> >>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
> >> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:Lasso-request@lists.
> lassosoft.com>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Laurent Gigon
And still no answer to my question ;)

2017-04-28 14:56 GMT-04:00 Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:

> Peter, I've been using lasso for almost as long as you are (due to one of
> those twists of life I was rather passive on the list) Lasso suffered from
> a lack of traction long before it was taken over by treefrog. At one point
> in time it was (at least in principle) the best of the pack. I think that
> lack of proper documentation  and poor error handling were the key problem
> that led to its demise. Look at elastic.co. Very clear business model. The
> big companies happily carry the brunt of the cost. You can do virtually
> anything with the free version, but it is much less convenient. Enough that
> there comes a point where you pay simply because you want to make life
> easier for yourself.
>
> I guess it is a freemium model. It will be interesting to see if perfect.org
> will repeat the same  mistakes. Has anybody here been using it?
>
> Alex
>
> On 28 April 2017 at 19:05, Peter D Bethke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Alex,
>>
>> I often find that a lot of people rally around making something open
>> source, but don’t consider the consequences. Lets say Lassosoft
>> open-sources 8.5.6. The core engine is written in C primarily, IIRC. So,
>> its not trivial to maintain. Are there enough Lasso programmers also
>> proficient in C to even maintain it? Further, you can bet that Lassosoft
>> won’t open source Lasso 9 because, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect a lot
>> of it ended up re-imagined in Perfect, and thats IP they don’t want to let
>> go of.
>>
>> Lassosoft has kept Lasso on life support for years, and I mean years.
>> Trust me, we’ve discussed this topic many times over the years. I just
>> don’t think its viable. The only “open source” option which might make
>> sense is if they simply removed the serial number and ip limits from LP
>> 8.5.x.
>>
>> What would be terrific is if they also did so with 8.6, which was the
>> version that finally knocked out some issues that had been plaguing lasso
>> for years, such as DNS deafness and updated IMAP support, etc. But because
>> that version is tied in with their licensing/pingback system, I don’t think
>> thats going to happen either.
>>
>> Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see an unexpected resurgence of Lasso.
>> I’ve built some pretty extensive applications myself with it. But I’m not
>> holding my breath.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> > On Apr 28, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > It is rather amazing that something as good as lasso is dying a slow
>> death.
>> > I've just recoded my front end with polymer and lasso. It uses service
>> > workers, json-ld, web components, and is fast and 100% responsive on any
>> > device with one code base. After the initial load only JSON and new parts
>> > are loaded. Whilst it IS NOT a progressive web app or a single page app
>> it
>> > certainly feels as snappy as one. If you are curious have a look at
>> > https://www.schulranzen.com <https://www.schulranzen.com/>
>> >
>> > The routing is done server side with all the data loaded from elastic
>> > search. It is currently running on a single dedicated server and gets a
>> few
>> > million page views - robots not included. The SEMRush bot hit it with a
>> few
>> > hundred thousand hits in VERY short time and I didn't even realize until
>> > afterwards when my log index ate 13GB of memory.
>> >
>> > PLEASE DON'T LET LASSO DIE! OPEN SOURCE IT WITH A BETTER BUSINESS MODEL!
>> >
>> > Alex
>> >
>> > On 28 April 2017 at 17:06, Laurent G <[hidden email] <mailto:
>> [hidden email]>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> So, how can we run Lasso 8.6 on EC2 since installation fails due to
>> >> insufficient privileges?
>> >>
>> >> 2017-04-28 11:33 GMT-04:00 Stephen Smiroldo <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>> >>> I’ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our
>> >> ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?
>> >>>
>> >>> I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great
>> >> product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly
>> millions
>> >> of lines of code!  I’m one web guy where I work and can’t put in the
>> >> time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I’ve used Lasso9 enough to know
>> >> there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to
>> >> translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.
>> >>>
>> >>> What I would love to see is a more “freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as
>> >> something new like “LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as
>> OS X
>> >> and other Linux boxes) that’s completely/seamlessly backward compatible
>> >> with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs. Something
>> >> similar to this...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance
>> >>>
>> >>> Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site
>> >>>
>> >>> Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site
>> >>>
>> >>> Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site
>> >>>
>> >>> Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site
>> >>>
>> >>> Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be
>> >> relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface
>> should
>> >> allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and
>> >> upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.
>> >>>
>> >>> I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with
>> just
>> >> 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above
>> >> pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.
>> Rather,
>> >> they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> __________________________
>> >>> Stephen Smiroldo
>> >>> StudioThought LLC
>> >>> Website Design & Digital Marketing
>> >>> http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/> <
>> http://www.studiothought.com/ <http://www.studiothought.com/>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> +100
>> >>>>
>> >>>>      - John
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
>> >>>>> Alex,
>> >>>>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more
>> >> than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many folks
>> >> have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running
>> >> legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my
>> >> legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was “perpetual
>> >> licenses”. When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of
>> >> perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who wanted
>> >> 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I’ve
>> >> used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly
>> rational
>> >> business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to be
>> not
>> >> my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my
>> >> (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit
>> practice
>> >> and while not adhering to “newer is better”, its justified in supporting
>> >> sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its
>> >> creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important,
>> >> buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear “swift”. Lasso, not so
>> >> much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years we
>> >> benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he’d
>> prefer
>> >> to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to
>> say
>> >> that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle
>> and a
>> >> few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a hobby
>> >> language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some
>> cool
>> >> features, etc, but Kyle’s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably made
>> >> its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new programmer
>> has
>> >> 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with
>> >> which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went
>> >> elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and no
>> one
>> >> noticed?
>> >>>>> I’m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to admit
>> >> - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and
>> >> Kyle’s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to
>> them.
>> >>>>> I don’t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I
>> >> think I have earned some perspective.
>> >>>>> Peter
>> >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating to
>> >> let my
>> >>>>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
>> >>>>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best
>> >>>>>> Alex
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> You’re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent.
>> >> Laurent
>> >>>>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Part from that I agree on that it’s worthwhile making the leap to
>> >> Lasso 9.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> HDB
>> >>>>>>> Jolle
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially viable
>> to
>> >>>>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out,
>> >> just for
>> >>>>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And
>> anyone
>> >>>>>>> still
>> >>>>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any business
>> >> who
>> >>>>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be
>> reasonably
>> >> up to
>> >>>>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology
>> >> outdated by
>> >>>>>>>> well over 10 years.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/ <
>> http://www.pointinspace.com/> <
>> >> http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/>>
>> >>>> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
>> >>>>
>> >>>>       Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
>> >>>>         on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> #############################################################
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>> >>>> the mailing list Lasso [hidden email] <mailto:
>> [hidden email]> <mailto:
>> >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>> >>>> Official list archives available at http://www.lassotalk.com <
>> http://www.lassotalk.com/> <
>> >> http://www.lassotalk.com/ <http://www.lassotalk.com/>>
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> >> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:
>> [hidden email]>>>
>> >>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> >> <mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:Lasso-request@lists.
>> lassosoft.com>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> #############################################################
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>> >>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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>> [hidden email]>
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>> >>
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Peter D Bethke
In reply to this post by Alex Betz-3
Alex,

I agree with you on many points but I’ll have to disagree on the lack of documentation - back when Fletcher Sandbeck was involved (Lasso 8.x era) the documentation was very well done, IMHO. Combined with Duncan Cameron’s book, that was a short lived “New Hope”.

I think, frankly, Lasso’s suffering from a lack of [Fletcher], literally and metaphorically.

Peter

> On Apr 28, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  I think that
> lack of proper documentation


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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

French, Shelane
In reply to this post by Peter D Bethke
I would love to see the limits of 8.6 removed especially because LassoSoft
hasn't found the source of the issue where an instance can suddenly
"believe" that it has exceeded the instance limit when it has not, causing
a production site to go into developer mode. I would also love to see tags
like the image tags open sourced or kept up-to-date for
performance/security reasons. Also on my wish list would be to have it be
able to run on CentOS 7.

I am the lone Lasso developer in my group. My boss wants to move all of my
applications into Java Play/Angular, but there still aren't enough
resources to do that. One team took an app that I wrote in Lasso in 3
weeks and it took them 9 months to write it in Java Play/Angular. How are
they going to handle the more robust applications? And, I'm going to be on
leave for 6 months starting in mid-June. The only thing I'm doing is
checking in once a week to ensure that the fork isn't on fire. And even
when I am there 100%, I'm the lead developer on our Drupal project.

So, I have to keep my 8.6 running as long as possible because going to 9
isn't.

On 4/28/17, 11:05 AM, "[hidden email] on behalf of
Peter D Bethke" <[hidden email] on behalf of
[hidden email]> wrote:

>Alex,
>
>I often find that a lot of people rally around making something open
>source, but don¹t consider the consequences. Lets say Lassosoft
>open-sources 8.5.6. The core engine is written in C primarily, IIRC. So,
>its not trivial to maintain. Are there enough Lasso programmers also
>proficient in C to even maintain it? Further, you can bet that Lassosoft
>won¹t open source Lasso 9 because, as I mentioned earlier, I suspect a
>lot of it ended up re-imagined in Perfect, and thats IP they don¹t want
>to let go of.
>
>Lassosoft has kept Lasso on life support for years, and I mean years.
>Trust me, we¹ve discussed this topic many times over the years. I just
>don¹t think its viable. The only ³open source² option which might make
>sense is if they simply removed the serial number and ip limits from LP
>8.5.x.
>
>What would be terrific is if they also did so with 8.6, which was the
>version that finally knocked out some issues that had been plaguing lasso
>for years, such as DNS deafness and updated IMAP support, etc. But
>because that version is tied in with their licensing/pingback system, I
>don¹t think thats going to happen either.
>
>Don¹t get me wrong, I¹d like to see an unexpected resurgence of Lasso.
>I¹ve built some pretty extensive applications myself with it. But I¹m not
>holding my breath.
>
>Peter
>
>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It is rather amazing that something as good as lasso is dying a slow
>>death.
>> I've just recoded my front end with polymer and lasso. It uses service
>> workers, json-ld, web components, and is fast and 100% responsive on any
>> device with one code base. After the initial load only JSON and new
>>parts
>> are loaded. Whilst it IS NOT a progressive web app or a single page app
>>it
>> certainly feels as snappy as one. If you are curious have a look at
>> https://www.schulranzen.com <https://www.schulranzen.com/>
>>
>> The routing is done server side with all the data loaded from elastic
>> search. It is currently running on a single dedicated server and gets a
>>few
>> million page views - robots not included. The SEMRush bot hit it with a
>>few
>> hundred thousand hits in VERY short time and I didn't even realize until
>> afterwards when my log index ate 13GB of memory.
>>
>> PLEASE DON'T LET LASSO DIE! OPEN SOURCE IT WITH A BETTER BUSINESS MODEL!
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On 28 April 2017 at 17:06, Laurent G <[hidden email]
>><mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>> So, how can we run Lasso 8.6 on EC2 since installation fails due to
>>> insufficient privileges?
>>>
>>> 2017-04-28 11:33 GMT-04:00 Stephen Smiroldo <[hidden email]
>>><mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>>> I¹ve been thinking the same thing but maybe we could offer some of our
>>> ideas/suggestions that would allow Lasso to thrive?
>>>>
>>>> I know Lasso 9.x is newer, faster, better, but Lasso 8.6 is a great
>>> product that I have multiple applications running on with possibly
>>>millions
>>> of lines of code!  I¹m one web guy where I work and can¹t put in the
>>> time/effort to convert everything. Plus, I¹ve used Lasso9 enough to
>>>know
>>> there are considerable differences that makes me unsure about how to
>>> translate some of my 8.6 apps to 9.x.
>>>>
>>>> What I would love to see is a more ³freeware" Lasso 8.7 (or rebrand as
>>> something new like ³LOOP") running on Windows Server 2012 (as well as
>>>OS X
>>> and other Linux boxes) that¹s completely/seamlessly backward compatible
>>> with 8.6 and priced by # of sites and traffic/bandwidth needs.
>>>Something
>>> similar to this...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FREE (commercial): 3 sites / 150 IPs/visits per day, per instance
>>>>
>>>> Small Business ($4.99/mo): 3 sites / 500 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Medium Business ($9.99/mo): 5 sites / 750 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Corporate ($19.99/mo): unlimited sites / 1000 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Enterprise ($39.99/mo): unlimited sites / 5000 visits/day each site
>>>>
>>>> Unlimited/hosting ($49.99/mo): unlimited sites / unlimited visits
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The free commercial version should allow Lasso (or LOOP) to be
>>> relatively competitive in the freeware space. The new LOOP interface
>>>should
>>> allow the site owner to see their site usage in real-time and
>>> upgrade/downgrade plans with ease.
>>>>
>>>> I also wonder if Lassosoft might be able to form a partnership with
>>>>just
>>> 1 major hosting company to allow customers to use LOOP with the above
>>> pricing structure. Hosting company would NOT need to pay for LOOP.
>>>Rather,
>>> they would get a % of whichever paid plan is purchased.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else? Lets generate some ideas and solutions!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________
>>>> Stephen Smiroldo
>>>> StudioThought LLC
>>>> Website Design & Digital Marketing
>>>> http://www.studiothought.com <http://www.studiothought.com/>
>>>><http://www.studiothought.com/ <http://www.studiothought.com/>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 9:57 AM, John May <[hidden email]
>>>>><mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> +100
>>>>>
>>>>>      - John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/28/17 9:19 AM, Peter D Bethke wrote:
>>>>>> Alex,
>>>>>> Actually I think you are making the point about _not_ upgrading more
>>> than upgrading. I know that Laurent is talking about 8.6, but many
>>>folks
>>> have pre-8.6 (and pre-subscription) licenses that would be fine running
>>> legacy lasso code (I myself use 8.5.6). The reason I use 8.5.6 for my
>>> legacy sites is that prior to 8.6, all Lassosoft sold was ³perpetual
>>> licenses². When they made the switch to 8.6, they made the price of
>>> perpetual licenses so onerous that it basically forced anyone who
>>>wanted
>>> 8.6 to do the subscription model. After 19 years (yes thats right, I¹ve
>>> used lasso since 1997) , I found that decision, while a perfectly
>>>rational
>>> business decision to provide sustained revenue and combat piracy, to
>>>be not
>>> my favorite move. So I run 8.5.6 on my legacy sites with one of my
>>> (several) legacy lasso perpetual licenses just fine. Its a legit
>>>practice
>>> and while not adhering to ³newer is better², its justified in
>>>supporting
>>> sites based on a language that, yes, has largely been abandoned by its
>>> creators in favor of something newer, sexier and most important,
>>> buzzword-worthy. Investors perk up when they hear ³swift². Lasso, not
>>>so
>>> much. Kyle has always pushed into new territories (and for many years
>>>we
>>> benefited from that) with Lasso and I think he finally figured he¹d
>>>prefer
>>> to make some money at it - thats fine. But to keep even pretending to
>>>say
>>> that Lasso has any traction in the future is ludicrous. I know Jolle
>>>and a
>>> few others do some cutting edge stuff with 9, but 9 is more like a
>>>hobby
>>> language at this point for any new programmer to Lasso - its got some
>>>cool
>>> features, etc, but Kyle¹s JIT stuff that he put into Lasso probably
>>>made
>>> its way to Perfect where it could really be noticed. Any new
>>>programmer has
>>> 1001 other more marketable possibilities  for languages than lasso with
>>> which to make his/her mark. Me, I went to Python and Ruby - others went
>>> elsewhere. I mean come on - the LT talk list shut down for weeks and
>>>no one
>>> noticed?
>>>>>> I¹m just saying what everyone knows but no one exactly wants to
>>>>>>admit
>>> - Lasso, after a glorious run, is largely dead. Perfect is now Sean and
>>> Kyle¹s pony and they are running it with full steam - more power to
>>>them.
>>>>>> I don¹t see my post as a rant - its just the truth. After 19 years I
>>> think I have earned some perspective.
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Alex Betz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL - I got that only after I sent out my reply. Still liberating
>>>>>>>to
>>> let my
>>>>>>> lassosoft runt out. Aren't you worried that lasso is not  being
>>>>>>> (wholeheartedly) developed anymore?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best
>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 28 April 2017 at 09:54, Jolle Carlestam <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You¹re bashing doors that are not only open but even nonexistent.
>>> Laurent
>>>>>>>> admitted that he misspelled. He meant 8.6.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Part from that I agree on that it¹s worthwhile making the leap to
>>> Lasso 9.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HDB
>>>>>>>> Jolle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 28 apr. 2017 kl. 10:36 skrev Alex Betz <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't  get this. I understand that it is not financially
>>>>>>>>>viable to
>>>>>>>>> upgrade every site  every time a new version of Lasso comes out,
>>> just for
>>>>>>>>> the sake of it. But wanting to run lasso 6 on EC2 really? And
>>>>>>>>>anyone
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>> running  lasso 3 surely must by a (retired) hobbyist. Any
>>>>>>>>>business
>>> who
>>>>>>>>> depends even marginally on its online presence should be
>>>>>>>>>reasonably
>>> up to
>>>>>>>>> date with technology and that is not possible with technology
>>> outdated by
>>>>>>>>> well over 10 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> John May : President                   http://www.pointinspace.com/
>>>>><http://www.pointinspace.com/> <
>>> http://www.pointinspace.com/ <http://www.pointinspace.com/>>
>>>>> Point In Space Internet Solutions         800.664.8610 919.338.8198
>>>>>
>>>>>       Professional FileMaker Pro, MySQL, PHP & Lasso Hosting
>>>>>         on shared, virtual and hardware dedicated servers
>>>>>
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Re: Lasso 6 on Amazon EC2 (AWS)

Jolle Carlestam-2
1 maj 2017 kl. 17:06 skrev French, Shelane <[hidden email]>:
>
> One team took an app that I wrote in Lasso in 3
> weeks and it took them 9 months to write it in Java Play/Angular.

This should've be made a slogan for Lasso back in the days when it could still make a difference. I worked for a company this autumn that did all their backend in Java. And I never could understand why it took them so many man hours to get anything done. Tasks that in my Lasso trained eyes looked like an afternoons work was always like, ”Yea, we can do that and probably have a prototype up and running in two weeks time”…

The fact that the developer masses never discovered Lasso is a shame.

HDB
Jolle

Pst, and no, Laurent, I have no answer to your question. I don’t do 8.X.

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