FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

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FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

andreas-6
Hello

Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets dead slow.

It took me some time to find out the following.
- All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
-  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.

On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several processes (sessions?)
for this one website!
I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is only one "socket?" per Lasso site
for one database?

Thanks for ideas.

Best regards

Andreas Stämpfli




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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

stevepiercy
FMS CWP is known to be slow.  You would do well to optimize
queries to mitigate its shortcomings.  Best practices can be
found in the Lasso Language Guide.

Chapter 11 — FileMaker Data Sources
Performance Tips, pp. 170-171

Do that first.  If still too slow, you can cache results where
the results are always the same, or you can switch the ODBC
connector.  Jono recently did some testing for Lasso 9 which
showed impressive results, but I don't recall whether he tested
on 8.x.  It's in the LassoTalk archive.

--steve


On 11/8/11 at 6:00 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:

>Hello
>
>Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets dead slow.
>
>It took me some time to find out the following.
>- All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
>-  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>
>On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs
>several processes (sessions?)
>for this one website!
>I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought,
>there is only one "socket?" per Lasso site
>for one database?
>
>Thanks for ideas.
>
>Best regards
>
>Andreas Stämpfli
>
>
>
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>the mailing list Lasso
>[hidden email]
>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>

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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

Jonathan Guthrie-3
Initial results looked good for ODBC & FMSA11 with 8.6.
I have not published the results because I was unable to circle back and do complete testing on the same hardware software combo due to timing.
The server however is sitting on my desk waiting for me to get back to at a point where I have a sufficient gap :)

ODBC is definitely worth checking out though.

On 2011-11-08, at 1:44 PM, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote:

> FMS CWP is known to be slow.  You would do well to optimize queries to mitigate its shortcomings.  Best practices can be found in the Lasso Language Guide.
>
> Chapter 11 — FileMaker Data Sources
> Performance Tips, pp. 170-171
>
> Do that first.  If still too slow, you can cache results where the results are always the same, or you can switch the ODBC connector.  Jono recently did some testing for Lasso 9 which showed impressive results, but I don't recall whether he tested on 8.x.  It's in the LassoTalk archive.
>
> --steve

Jono

----------------------------
Jonathan Guthrie
[hidden email]
LassoSoft Inc.

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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

andreas-6
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
Hello Steve

thanks for your hints. Yes, I know the pages - but do admit to not always follow those guidelines when in a hurry...

Is it known that a Lasso FMSA Connector establishes several connections for one site?  The same Lasso user shows up
6 times, for example.

Best regards

Andreas Stämpfli



Am 08.11.2011 um 19:44 schrieb Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:

> FMS CWP is known to be slow.  You would do well to optimize queries to mitigate its shortcomings.  Best practices can be found in the Lasso Language Guide.
>
> Chapter 11 — FileMaker Data Sources
> Performance Tips, pp. 170-171
>
> Do that first.  If still too slow, you can cache results where the results are always the same, or you can switch the ODBC connector.  Jono recently did some testing for Lasso 9 which showed impressive results, but I don't recall whether he tested on 8.x.  It's in the LassoTalk archive.
>
> --steve
>
>
> On 11/8/11 at 6:00 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:
>
>> Hello
>>
>> Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets dead slow.
>>
>> It took me some time to find out the following.
>> - All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
>> -  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>>
>> On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several processes (sessions?)
>> for this one website!
>> I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is only one "socket?" per Lasso site
>> for one database?
>>
>> Thanks for ideas.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Andreas Stämpfli
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> #############################################################
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>> the mailing list Lasso
>> [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> the mailing list Lasso
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

stevepiercy
Haste makes inefficient queries.  If you want to increase
response time, you should do this first and foremost.

Sometimes FMS Admin Console does not close connections when they
drop unexpectedly on the client side (i.e., Lasso).  I've had to
restart FMS to clear those connections.

I don't know the number of connections per site that the Lasso
FMSA Connector can make.  Does it matter?  I mean, your problem
is speed, not number of connections.

--steve


On 11/8/11 at 8:53 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:

>Hello Steve
>
>thanks for your hints. Yes, I know the pages - but do admit to
>not always follow those guidelines when in a hurry...
>
>Is it known that a Lasso FMSA Connector establishes several
>connections for one site?  The same Lasso user shows up
>6 times, for example.
>
>Best regards
>
>Andreas Stämpfli
>
>
>
>Am 08.11.2011 um 19:44 schrieb Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:
>
>>FMS CWP is known to be slow.  You would do well to optimize queries to mitigate its
>shortcomings.  Best practices can be found in the Lasso Language Guide.
>>
>>Chapter 11 — FileMaker Data Sources
>>Performance Tips, pp. 170-171
>>
>>Do that first.  If still too slow, you can cache results where the results are always
>the same, or you can switch the ODBC connector.  Jono recently
>did some testing for Lasso 9 which showed impressive results,
>but I don't recall whether he tested on 8.x.  It's in the
>LassoTalk archive.
>>
>>--steve
>>
>>
>>On 11/8/11 at 6:00 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:
>>
>>> Hello
>>>   Since a few days on a customers website problems arise
>>>that it gets dead slow.
>>>   It took me some time to find out the following.
>>> - All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
>>> -  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>>>   On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker
>>>runs several processes
>(sessions?)
>>> for this one website!
>>> I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is only one
>"socket?" per Lasso site
>>> for one database?
>>>   Thanks for ideas.
>>>   Best regards
>>>   Andreas Stämpfli
>>>      #############################################################
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>> the mailing list Lasso
>>> [hidden email]
>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>
>>-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
>><[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>>
>>#############################################################
>>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>the mailing list Lasso
>>[hidden email]
>>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>the mailing list Lasso
>[hidden email]
>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>

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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

Carl Ketterling
In reply to this post by andreas-6
Andreas,

I'm running FileMaker Pro Server, but I've not heard of v11.0.99.  Where
are you getting that?  I have v11.0.3.309, and an update to v11.0.4.404
is available.

>On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several
processes (sessions?)

Where are you seeing this?  Are you looking at a process list in
Terminal ('ps')?  Are you using Activity Monitor?

And what version of Lasso are you using?

I'd be happy to compare my setup with your own.

Carl Ketterling

In response to this text from [hidden email] ([hidden email]) sent
on Tuesday, November 8, 2011 at 6:00 PM (+0100):

>Hello
>
>Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets
dead slow.

>
>It took me some time to find out the following.
>- All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
>-  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>
>On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several
>processes (sessions?)
>for this one website!
>I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is
>only one "socket?" per Lasso site
>for one database?
>
>Thanks for ideas.
>
>Best regards
>
>Andreas Stämpfli
>
>
>
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list Lasso
>[hidden email]
>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>


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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

andreas-6
Hello Carl

I  had bad experiences with upgrading software in the past, especially with FMSA. My version is this one:
http://help.filemaker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7724/~/software-update%3A-filemaker-server-11.0v2-and-filemaker-server-11.0v2-advanced

Maybe, an upgrade could fix the issue. But has Filemaker thought of that?

The connections from Lasso 8.5.5 OS X 10.5.8 can be seen in FMS Admin console on panel "Administration -> Clients"
Normally there is no "Lasso" user (you will see those by the Type of  "fmxml" and by accountname).
I assume, there is no user visible, because the connection is established only a very short time.

Best regards

Andreas Stämpfli





Am 08.11.2011 um 23:39 schrieb Carl Ketterling:

> Andreas,
>
> I'm running FileMaker Pro Server, but I've not heard of v11.0.99.  Where
> are you getting that?  I have v11.0.3.309, and an update to v11.0.4.404
> is available.
>
>> On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several
> processes (sessions?)
>
> Where are you seeing this?  Are you looking at a process list in
> Terminal ('ps')?  Are you using Activity Monitor?
>
> And what version of Lasso are you using?
>
> I'd be happy to compare my setup with your own.
>
> Carl Ketterling
>
> In response to this text from [hidden email] ([hidden email]) sent
> on Tuesday, November 8, 2011 at 6:00 PM (+0100):
>
>> Hello
>>
>> Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets
> dead slow.
>>
>> It took me some time to find out the following.
>> - All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
>> -  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>>
>> On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several
>> processes (sessions?)
>> for this one website!
>> I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is
>> only one "socket?" per Lasso site
>> for one database?
>>
>> Thanks for ideas.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Andreas Stämpfli
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> #############################################################
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>> the mailing list Lasso
>> [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>
>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list Lasso
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

Carl Ketterling
That certainly explains why I couldn't see the Lasso user.  I've only
had this version of FileMaker Server running for about a month now, and
I haven't seen that problem; but I'm sure I have a much less active site
than most of the sites listed here.

And I understand about upgrading.  I recently upgraded both FileMaker
and Lasso, and it's caused me huge headaches.

Carl

In response to this text from [hidden email] ([hidden email]) sent
on Wednesday, November 9, 2011 at 7:31 AM (+0100):

>Hello Carl
>
>I  had bad experiences with upgrading software in the past, especially
>with FMSA. My version is this one:
>http://help.filemaker.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7724/~/software-update
>%3A-filemaker-server-11.0v2-and-filemaker-server-11.0v2-advanced
>
>Maybe, an upgrade could fix the issue. But has Filemaker thought of that?
>
>The connections from Lasso 8.5.5 OS X 10.5.8 can be seen in FMS Admin
>console on panel "Administration -> Clients"
>Normally there is no "Lasso" user (you will see those by the Type of
>"fmxml" and by accountname).
>I assume, there is no user visible, because the connection is
>established only a very short time.
>
>Best regards
>
>Andreas Stämpfli
>
>
>
>
>
>Am 08.11.2011 um 23:39 schrieb Carl Ketterling:
>
>> Andreas,
>>
>> I'm running FileMaker Pro Server, but I've not heard of v11.0.99.  Where
>> are you getting that?  I have v11.0.3.309, and an update to v11.0.4.404
>> is available.
>>
>>> On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several
>> processes (sessions?)
>>
>> Where are you seeing this?  Are you looking at a process list in
>> Terminal ('ps')?  Are you using Activity Monitor?
>>
>> And what version of Lasso are you using?
>>
>> I'd be happy to compare my setup with your own.
>>
>> Carl Ketterling
>>
>> In response to this text from [hidden email] ([hidden email]) sent
>> on Tuesday, November 8, 2011 at 6:00 PM (+0100):
>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets
>> dead slow.
>>>
>>> It took me some time to find out the following.
>>> - All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server
Advanced.

>>> -  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>>>
>>> On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several
>>> processes (sessions?)
>>> for this one website!
>>> I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is
>>> only one "socket?" per Lasso site
>>> for one database?
>>>
>>> Thanks for ideas.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Andreas Stämpfli
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #############################################################
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>> the mailing list Lasso
>>> [hidden email]
>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>
>>
>> #############################################################
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>  the mailing list Lasso
>> [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>
>#############################################################
>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list Lasso
>[hidden email]
>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>


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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

andreas-6
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
--solved:

Your hint helped to solve this issue, Steve. Thank you.
A query that asked for too much records produced the error.

The following happened:
One site had a lot of traffic. A query was inefficient. This lead to  time_wait sockets connections (FMSA - Lasso).
This can be seen in Terminal by typing: netstat
Those sockets blocked traffic an all Lasso sites.

Andreas


Am 08.11.2011 um 22:53 schrieb Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:

> Haste makes inefficient queries.  If you want to increase response time, you should do this first and foremost.
>
> Sometimes FMS Admin Console does not close connections when they drop unexpectedly on the client side (i.e., Lasso).  I've had to restart FMS to clear those connections.
>
> I don't know the number of connections per site that the Lasso FMSA Connector can make.  Does it matter?  I mean, your problem is speed, not number of connections.
>
> --steve
>
>
> On 11/8/11 at 8:53 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:
>
>> Hello Steve
>>
>> thanks for your hints. Yes, I know the pages - but do admit to not always follow those guidelines when in a hurry...
>>
>> Is it known that a Lasso FMSA Connector establishes several connections for one site?  The same Lasso user shows up
>> 6 times, for example.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Andreas Stämpfli
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 08.11.2011 um 19:44 schrieb Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:
>>
>>> FMS CWP is known to be slow.  You would do well to optimize queries to mitigate its
>> shortcomings.  Best practices can be found in the Lasso Language Guide.
>>>
>>> Chapter 11 — FileMaker Data Sources
>>> Performance Tips, pp. 170-171
>>>
>>> Do that first.  If still too slow, you can cache results where the results are always
>> the same, or you can switch the ODBC connector.  Jono recently did some testing for Lasso 9 which showed impressive results, but I don't recall whether he tested on 8.x.  It's in the LassoTalk archive.
>>>
>>> --steve
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/8/11 at 6:00 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:
>>>
>>>> Hello
>>>>  Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets dead slow.
>>>>  It took me some time to find out the following.
>>>> - All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
>>>> -  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>>>>  On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several processes
>> (sessions?)
>>>> for this one website!
>>>> I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is only one
>> "socket?" per Lasso site
>>>> for one database?
>>>>  Thanks for ideas.
>>>>  Best regards
>>>>  Andreas Stämpfli
>>>>     #############################################################
>>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>>> the mailing list Lasso
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
>>> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>>>
>>> #############################################################
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>> the mailing list Lasso
>>> [hidden email]
>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>
>> #############################################################
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>> the mailing list Lasso
>> [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
> the mailing list Lasso
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>

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Re: FileMaker 11.0.99 Custom Web Publishing dead slow

stevepiercy
You're welcome.  I'm glad you found the cause.  It's not an
uncommon issue.

Another common issue is the Mother of All Layouts which contains
several hundred fields.  Each search returns all the field
values, even if it is just one record.  Then there is the
Mother****** of All Layouts which contains several hundred
fields, many of which are portals, or contain relations or
unstored calculations.

FileMaker is great because it is so easy to do what you want quickly.

FileMaker sucks because it is so easy to do what you want quickly.

--steve


On 11/11/11 at 6:29 AM, [hidden email] pronounced:

>--solved:
>
>Your hint helped to solve this issue, Steve. Thank you.
>A query that asked for too much records produced the error.
>
>The following happened:
>One site had a lot of traffic. A query was inefficient. This
>lead to  time_wait sockets connections (FMSA - Lasso).
>This can be seen in Terminal by typing: netstat
>Those sockets blocked traffic an all Lasso sites.
>
>Andreas
>
>
>Am 08.11.2011 um 22:53 schrieb Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:
>
>>Haste makes inefficient queries.  If you want to increase response time, you should
>do this first and foremost.
>>
>>Sometimes FMS Admin Console does not close connections when they drop unexpectedly on
>the client side (i.e., Lasso).  I've had to restart FMS to clear those connections.
>>
>>I don't know the number of connections per site that the Lasso FMSA Connector can
>make.  Does it matter?  I mean, your problem is speed, not number of connections.
>>
>>--steve
>>
>>
>>On 11/8/11 at 8:53 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:
>>
>>> Hello Steve
>>>   thanks for your hints. Yes, I know the pages - but do
>>>admit to not always follow
>those guidelines when in a hurry...
>>>   Is it known that a Lasso FMSA Connector establishes
>>>several connections for one
>site?  The same Lasso user shows up
>>> 6 times, for example.
>>>   Best regards
>>>   Andreas Stämpfli
>>>     Am 08.11.2011 um 19:44 schrieb Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder:
>>>
>>>> FMS CWP is known to be slow.  You would do well to optimize queries to mitigate its
>>> shortcomings.  Best practices can be found in the Lasso Language Guide.
>>>>   Chapter 11 — FileMaker Data Sources
>>>> Performance Tips, pp. 170-171
>>>>   Do that first.  If still too slow, you can cache results
>>>>where the results are
>always
>>> the same, or you can switch the ODBC connector.  Jono recently did some testing for
>Lasso 9 which showed impressive results, but I don't recall
>whether he tested on 8.x.  It's in the LassoTalk archive.
>>>>   --steve
>>>>    On 11/8/11 at 6:00 PM, [hidden email] pronounced:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello
>>>>>  Since a few days on a customers website problems arise that it gets dead slow.
>>>>>  It took me some time to find out the following.
>>>>> - All Lasso sites get slow that are connected to Filemaker Server Advanced.
>>>>> -  If I deactivate this special site, all other sites work well.
>>>>>  On FileMaker Server Control Panel I can see that Filemaker runs several processes
>>> (sessions?)
>>>>> for this one website!
>>>>> I never experienced this with other Lasso sites. I thought, there is only one
>>> "socket?" per Lasso site
>>>>> for one database?
>>>>>  Thanks for ideas.
>>>>>  Best regards
>>>>>  Andreas Stämpfli
>>>>>     #############################################################
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>>>>> [hidden email]
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>>>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>>>   -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>>>-- -- -- --
>>>> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
>>>> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>>>>   #############################################################
>>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>>   #############################################################
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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>>> [hidden email]
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>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>
>>-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>>Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
>><[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>>
>>#############################################################
>>This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>the mailing list Lasso
>>[hidden email]
>>To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>
>#############################################################
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-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>

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