[ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

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[ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Sean Stephens-2
Greetings again

After the last email, I wish to begin this new chapter by learning from you all about your problems, desires and issues. I am looking for everything you have to say on the subjects of;

- Great ideas you have for the Lasso product
- Great ideas you have for the LassoSoft business
- Problems and complaints you have with Lasso
- Failures of Lasso in the past
- Projects/Clients you have lost due to failed code or issues you need addressed
- Current projects in jeopardy due to Lasso
- Information about your own products or product ideas
- Skills you might have to help us, either volunteer or paid
- Bugs, critical and non-critical
- Feature requests
- Products you have which need to be discussed
- Opportunities you have that we can leverage together for success
- Anything else you feel needs to be heard...

I am opening this can of worms for discussion as I do not wish our past or current problems to plague our future. By making public all of the issues, and sharing them as a community, we can address their implications and concentrate effectively on fixing them. There are things we do not know about our past, and which we need to know if we are to define our future together.

This is the time open up and help us define Lasso. For this express purpose, I introduce to you the following forum for your thoughts;

http://listening.lassosoft.com/

This dialogue will continue for the month of December - during this period, the following ears are open for your words;

- The core forum: http://listening.lassosoft.com/
- Emails to me directly (I will work through them as quickly as possible): [hidden email]
- Book a time via email to iChat or Video Chat with me directly if you feel the need
- Send Kerry an email, or iChat him directly: [hidden email]

Obviously, I/we cannot hope to deal with all issues, bugs and features instantly. However, we can learn from one another and potentially the feedback will help ensure we are headed in a magnificent direction.

I trust you all will help me get Lasso aimed correctly in the best interests of our larger community.

Let's get started right away!

Thanks!

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.
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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Randy Phillips-2
L9 needs to be re-branded and repackaged to CoolName 1.0. Given it's
sorted history the Lasso brand is not generally taken seriously in the
industry except for the die hards. Update Lasso 8.5.x to give current
customers a few years to make the transition, maybe create a migration
tool to CoolName 1.0, then phase the Lasso brand out. Start over with
a new product and a new marketing scheme with a very focused and
targeted audience. Of course, the company name, LassoSoft is a
problem.

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Sean Stephens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Greetings again
>
> After the last email, I wish to begin this new chapter by learning from you all about your problems, desires and issues. I am looking for everything you have to say on the subjects of;
>
> - Great ideas you have for the Lasso product
> - Great ideas you have for the LassoSoft business
> - Problems and complaints you have with Lasso
> - Failures of Lasso in the past
> - Projects/Clients you have lost due to failed code or issues you need addressed
> - Current projects in jeopardy due to Lasso
> - Information about your own products or product ideas
> - Skills you might have to help us, either volunteer or paid
> - Bugs, critical and non-critical
> - Feature requests
> - Products you have which need to be discussed
> - Opportunities you have that we can leverage together for success
> - Anything else you feel needs to be heard...
>
> I am opening this can of worms for discussion as I do not wish our past or current problems to plague our future. By making public all of the issues, and sharing them as a community, we can address their implications and concentrate effectively on fixing them. There are things we do not know about our past, and which we need to know if we are to define our future together.
>
> This is the time open up and help us define Lasso. For this express purpose, I introduce to you the following forum for your thoughts;
>
> http://listening.lassosoft.com/
>
> This dialogue will continue for the month of December - during this period, the following ears are open for your words;
>
> - The core forum: http://listening.lassosoft.com/
> - Emails to me directly (I will work through them as quickly as possible): [hidden email]
> - Book a time via email to iChat or Video Chat with me directly if you feel the need
> - Send Kerry an email, or iChat him directly: [hidden email]
>
> Obviously, I/we cannot hope to deal with all issues, bugs and features instantly. However, we can learn from one another and potentially the feedback will help ensure we are headed in a magnificent direction.
>
> I trust you all will help me get Lasso aimed correctly in the best interests of our larger community.
>
> Let's get started right away!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sean Stephens
> CEO
> LassoSoft Inc.
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>
>



--
!!Rp

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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Marc Pope-2
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2
Quick run down from my prospective...

> - Great ideas you have for the Lasso product

        -> Make a repository for Linux so it's easy to install Lasso, e.g. yum install lasso
        -> possibly make it as easy as php, where it's included by default into CentOS and other Linux Variants
        -> Make it Free with Paid Options, using a MySQL-like model
        -> Bring some of the 8.5 Admin features back into 9 that are missing
       
        In honesty, Lasso 8.5 had everything I ever wanted except the bugs. L9 needs the same polish.

> - Great ideas you have for the LassoSoft business

        A community web 2.0 type of portal for everything Lasso that would encompass TagSwap, Complete Solution Center (e.g. LassoForge), News,  Job Opportunities (maybe even a bid system for Lasso Projects), Hosting Providers, Professional Profiles on Lasso Developers.

        Embrase Hosting Companies that have stuck with you, and Developers that Have Been Around for years.

        Just a random:
                Create a 100 member "Lasso Board" that can help direct the language?

        Create a real-designed website. The current site is very old-school and not web 2.0 looking for the future.
       

> - Problems and complaints you have with Lasso

        -> Memory is the biggest problem. It uses way too much RAM, and doesn't release well enough what it uses. I am speaking from an 8.5 prospective as I haven't used Lasso 9 enough.
        -> Lasso 9 Documentation, obviously
        -> Lasso 9 does not support hosting providers well, missing "Lasso Sites" like before.

> - Failures of Lasso in the past

        -> Being over ambitious and not responding quickly to bugs and issues the community is complaining about (e.g. 8.5's memory issues, thread issues, date bugs, etc)

> - Projects/Clients you have lost due to failed code or issues you need addressed

        -> Several of my customers have gone to PHP and can host it anywhere. People hosted with Falcon Internet because of my strong knowledge of the Lasso Product.

> - Current projects in jeopardy due to Lasso

        -> I have no Lasso Projects being done right now, but am playing with 9. I want to re-do Falcon Internet but have been trying to decide if I want to use L9 or not.

> - Information about your own products or product ideas

> - Skills you might have to help us, either volunteer or paid

        Volunteer -> Offered several times to host all of Lasso's Services for free and never had a response.
       
        Volunteer/Paid -> Would be willing to help in the area of design/branding. Depending on how busy I am.

> - Bugs, critical and non-critical

        See above, Pipe bug, Date bugs?, Memory issues

> - Feature requests

        CentOS 5 out of the box on L8.5/8.6 and also 64-bit with the latest JRE.
        and what I've written above.

>
> I am opening this can of worms for discussion as I do not wish our past or current problems to plague our future. By making public all of the issues, and sharing them as a community, we can address their implications and concentrate effectively on fixing them. There are things we do not know about our past, and which we need to know if we are to define our future together.
>
> This is the time open up and help us define Lasso. For this express purpose, I introduce to you the following forum for your thoughts;
>
> http://listening.lassosoft.com/
>
> This dialogue will continue for the month of December - during this period, the following ears are open for your words;
>
> - The core forum: http://listening.lassosoft.com/
> - Emails to me directly (I will work through them as quickly as possible): [hidden email]
> - Book a time via email to iChat or Video Chat with me directly if you feel the need
> - Send Kerry an email, or iChat him directly: [hidden email]
>
> Obviously, I/we cannot hope to deal with all issues, bugs and features instantly. However, we can learn from one another and potentially the feedback will help ensure we are headed in a magnificent direction.
>
> I trust you all will help me get Lasso aimed correctly in the best interests of our larger community.
>
> Let's get started right away!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sean Stephens
> CEO
> LassoSoft Inc.
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>


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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Chris Wik-4
On 03.12.2010, at 23:57, Marc Pope wrote:

> -> Lasso 9 does not support hosting providers well, missing "Lasso Sites" like before.


On the contrary, L9's use of FastCGI is a dozen times better for hosting providers than the old 8.5 model.

Now if LassoSoft Inc. could pick up the (rather basic, but functional) Webmin module I wrote and make it rock, that would be perfect :-)

--
Chris Wik
Anu Internet Services Ltd


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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

stevepiercy
On 12/4/10 at 12:29 AM, [hidden email] (Chris Wik) pronounced:

>Now if LassoSoft Inc. could pick up the (rather basic, but
>functional) Webmin module I wrote and make it rock, that would
>be perfect :-)

Why stop there?  How about an API for any control panel?

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>


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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Alex Pilson-2
In reply to this post by Randy Phillips-2
+1.

I recently witnessed the same exact pattern plague another company  
over the last 3 years, and to this day despite correcting its issues  
for better, it still is viewed as less superior product because of the  
perceived reputation it had once garnered. This is/was in the hobby  
industry.


On Dec 3, 2010, at 5:21 PM, Randy Phillips wrote:

> L9 needs to be re-branded and repackaged to CoolName 1.0. Given it's
> sorted history the Lasso brand is not generally taken seriously in the
> industry except for the die hards. Update Lasso 8.5.x to give current
> customers a few years to make the transition, maybe create a migration
> tool to CoolName 1.0, then phase the Lasso brand out. Start over with
> a new product and a new marketing scheme with a very focused and
> targeted audience. Of course, the company name, LassoSoft is a
> problem.
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Sean Stephens <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>> Greetings again
>>
>> After the last email, I wish to begin this new chapter by learning  
>> from you all about your problems, desires and issues. I am looking  
>> for everything you have to say on the subjects of;
>>
>> - Great ideas you have for the Lasso product
>> - Great ideas you have for the LassoSoft business
>> - Problems and complaints you have with Lasso
>> - Failures of Lasso in the past
>> - Projects/Clients you have lost due to failed code or issues you  
>> need addressed
>> - Current projects in jeopardy due to Lasso
>> - Information about your own products or product ideas
>> - Skills you might have to help us, either volunteer or paid
>> - Bugs, critical and non-critical
>> - Feature requests
>> - Products you have which need to be discussed
>> - Opportunities you have that we can leverage together for success
>> - Anything else you feel needs to be heard...
>>
>> I am opening this can of worms for discussion as I do not wish our  
>> past or current problems to plague our future. By making public all  
>> of the issues, and sharing them as a community, we can address  
>> their implications and concentrate effectively on fixing them.  
>> There are things we do not know about our past, and which we need  
>> to know if we are to define our future together.
>>
>> This is the time open up and help us define Lasso. For this express  
>> purpose, I introduce to you the following forum for your thoughts;
>>
>> http://listening.lassosoft.com/
>>
>> This dialogue will continue for the month of December - during this  
>> period, the following ears are open for your words;
>>
>> - The core forum: http://listening.lassosoft.com/
>> - Emails to me directly (I will work through them as quickly as  
>> possible): [hidden email]
>> - Book a time via email to iChat or Video Chat with me directly if  
>> you feel the need
>> - Send Kerry an email, or iChat him directly: [hidden email]
>>
>> Obviously, I/we cannot hope to deal with all issues, bugs and  
>> features instantly. However, we can learn from one another and  
>> potentially the feedback will help ensure we are headed in a  
>> magnificent direction.
>>
>> I trust you all will help me get Lasso aimed correctly in the best  
>> interests of our larger community.
>>
>> Let's get started right away!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Sean Stephens
>> CEO
>> LassoSoft Inc.
>> #############################################################
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]
>> >
>> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]
>> >
>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> !!Rp
>
> #############################################################
> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>  the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]
> >
> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]
> >
> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>


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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

stevepiercy
On 12/3/10 at 6:37 PM, [hidden email] (alex pilson) pronounced:

> This is/was in the hobby industry.

Or like Mac OS.  Oops, bad example.

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>


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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

fletcher sandbeck-2
In reply to this post by Randy Phillips-2
On Dec 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Randy Phillips wrote:

> L9 needs to be re-branded and repackaged to CoolName 1.0. Given it's
> sorted history the Lasso brand is not generally taken seriously in the
> industry except for the die hards. Update Lasso 8.5.x to give current
> customers a few years to make the transition, maybe create a migration
> tool to CoolName 1.0, then phase the Lasso brand out. Start over with
> a new product and a new marketing scheme with a very focused and
> targeted audience. Of course, the company name, LassoSoft is a
> problem.

In the past we have had this discussion internally as well.  While there is some appeal to a fresh start there is also a fair amount of good brand history tied to the "Lasso" name.  I often run into people who have heard of Lasso, but don't really have any opinion of it.  However, that name recognition holds some weight on its own.  Ten years is an eternity in Internet time and a product with that longevity, even with some warts, is an asset.  It's an idea worthy of discussion, but I don't think a name change is necessarily a home run.

[fletcher]


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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Neil Enock
Great Announcement,

A suggestion:

Port 8.5 into a maintained entry level product for a low price point to get newbies involved.  Perform the bug fixes that were being worked on (although it has been rock stable for me) and make it Lasso Lite.  (Definitely keep the name Lasso).

That will give the Treefrog marketing machine, (which seems to do a pretty good job ;), something to do while Lasso 9 is developed to completion.

Lasso 9 in its current form is something I likely won't look at. Judging by everything I've heard, it is ten times too complicated to install and run.  I, like many of the non-die-hard-programmers who are still runnning 8.5,  really don't care to learn all the nuts and bolts of an operating system, just to connect my databases to the web. Hopefully the final Lasso 9 (maybe it should be Lasso X?) will bring simplicity back into the mix.

Just rambling...

Thanks for the heads up!

Neil
--
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On Dec 3, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Fletcher Sandbeck wrote:

> On Dec 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Randy Phillips wrote:
>
>> L9 needs to be re-branded and repackaged to CoolName 1.0. Given it's
>> sorted history the Lasso brand is not generally taken seriously in the
>> industry except for the die hards. Update Lasso 8.5.x to give current
>> customers a few years to make the transition, maybe create a migration
>> tool to CoolName 1.0, then phase the Lasso brand out. Start over with
>> a new product and a new marketing scheme with a very focused and
>> targeted audience. Of course, the company name, LassoSoft is a
>> problem.
>
> In the past we have had this discussion internally as well.  While there is some appeal to a fresh start there is also a fair amount of good brand history tied to the "Lasso" name.  I often run into people who have heard of Lasso, but don't really have any opinion of it.  However, that name recognition holds some weight on its own.  Ten years is an eternity in Internet time and a product with that longevity, even with some warts, is an asset.  It's an idea worthy of discussion, but I don't think a name change is necessarily a home run.
>
> [fletcher]
>
>
> #############################################################
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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Marc Pope-2
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
> Now if LassoSoft Inc. could pick up the (rather basic, but functional) Webmin module I wrote and make it rock, that would be perfect :-)

+1 Agreed, I really just wanted something that was official.



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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Sean Stephens-2
In reply to this post by Alex Pilson-2
Alex

I remember you well from days gone by. Do you remember helping me years ago?

Any chance you could put some of what you watched unfold down in detail, so that we might avoid the same mistakes as you are referring to? If you have witnessed a similar set of circumstances unfold, it would be well worth our while to recognize some of the obvious pitfalls ahead of time and avoid them quickly. You can send them to me off-list if you prefer.

The first time time you make a mistake, it's OK. The second time, it's unconscionable. Help us from making the same mistake once!

It would be much appreciated!

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.

On 2010-12-03, at 6:37 PM, alex pilson wrote:

> +1.
>
> I recently witnessed the same exact pattern plague another company over the last 3 years, and to this day despite correcting its issues for better, it still is viewed as less superior product because of the perceived reputation it had once garnered. This is/was in the hobby industry.
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2010, at 5:21 PM, Randy Phillips wrote:
>
>> L9 needs to be re-branded and repackaged to CoolName 1.0. Given it's
>> sorted history the Lasso brand is not generally taken seriously in the
>> industry except for the die hards. Update Lasso 8.5.x to give current
>> customers a few years to make the transition, maybe create a migration
>> tool to CoolName 1.0, then phase the Lasso brand out. Start over with
>> a new product and a new marketing scheme with a very focused and
>> targeted audience. Of course, the company name, LassoSoft is a
>> problem.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Sean Stephens <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Greetings again
>>>
>>> After the last email, I wish to begin this new chapter by learning from you all about your problems, desires and issues. I am looking for everything you have to say on the subjects of;
>>>
>>> - Great ideas you have for the Lasso product
>>> - Great ideas you have for the LassoSoft business
>>> - Problems and complaints you have with Lasso
>>> - Failures of Lasso in the past
>>> - Projects/Clients you have lost due to failed code or issues you need addressed
>>> - Current projects in jeopardy due to Lasso
>>> - Information about your own products or product ideas
>>> - Skills you might have to help us, either volunteer or paid
>>> - Bugs, critical and non-critical
>>> - Feature requests
>>> - Products you have which need to be discussed
>>> - Opportunities you have that we can leverage together for success
>>> - Anything else you feel needs to be heard...
>>>
>>> I am opening this can of worms for discussion as I do not wish our past or current problems to plague our future. By making public all of the issues, and sharing them as a community, we can address their implications and concentrate effectively on fixing them. There are things we do not know about our past, and which we need to know if we are to define our future together.
>>>
>>> This is the time open up and help us define Lasso. For this express purpose, I introduce to you the following forum for your thoughts;
>>>
>>> http://listening.lassosoft.com/
>>>
>>> This dialogue will continue for the month of December - during this period, the following ears are open for your words;
>>>
>>> - The core forum: http://listening.lassosoft.com/
>>> - Emails to me directly (I will work through them as quickly as possible): [hidden email]
>>> - Book a time via email to iChat or Video Chat with me directly if you feel the need
>>> - Send Kerry an email, or iChat him directly: [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Obviously, I/we cannot hope to deal with all issues, bugs and features instantly. However, we can learn from one another and potentially the feedback will help ensure we are headed in a magnificent direction.
>>>
>>> I trust you all will help me get Lasso aimed correctly in the best interests of our larger community.
>>>
>>> Let's get started right away!
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Sean Stephens
>>> CEO
>>> LassoSoft Inc.
>>> #############################################################
>>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
>>> the mailing list <[hidden email]>.
>>> To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <[hidden email]>
>>> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>>> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <[hidden email]>
>>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> !!Rp
>>
>> #############################################################
>> This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to
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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Sean Stephens-2
In reply to this post by fletcher sandbeck-2
Hmmm...

We strongly considered renaming the parent company "Blueworld" (no kidding). If only because for me personally - as a fledgling and enthusiastic developer, I thought Blueworld was the bees knees. Cathy was especially dear to me.

However, despite significant current developer dissent, our research showed us that the LassoSoft brand in general actually has a very positive public perception. In fact, both clients who know about it think it is great (just kidding).

Lasso - and LassoSoft - has an unprecedented customer list. I have been reading it in the past few days and swooning. I am truly in shock over who has both used it in the past and who currently uses it for their back end. There is great saturation and memory recall here - especially from those harkening back to the old Mac world who now work with or run larger agencies (I have bumped into them from time to time, on a regular basis). To name a few we pulled from the list recently; Apple Computer, Inc., Symantec Corp., Cisco Systems, Inc., Sun Microsystems, Inc., Citrix, Motorola, Siemens, Air Canada, Volvo, Mister Transmission, WestJet, GE, Kodak, Makita, NASA, the United Nations, the US Food and Drug Administration, Stanford University... and 37,000+ more...

That's what 15 years gives you with one brand name.

Oddly enough, the core developers in the community are much more jaded to the name than the world at large (their clients). I can tell you - the clients of Treefrog have a very high opinion of Lasso, and we have staked a very profitable business on its reputation. They go to the website once - during decision time to use a developer or not - and that's about it. At the end of the day - end-client perception is what matters most for our ability to use the product.

We just need to polish the name a bit - the rust has set in from the passing of time without a budget to make it shine - and it looks a bit old and busted. At its core, it's still made of hardened steel.

Having said that - great feedback, thanks! Give us a few months, and let me know if we have been able to create a CoolName out of it once again.

http://listening.lassosoft.com/The-Lasso-brand-is-dead

And, having said that - if you have a better name in your pocket, I'll strongly consider it. Let me know!

(Cobra? LHP? Warmfusion? .org? Lava? Bob?)

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.

On 2010-12-03, at 6:49 PM, Fletcher Sandbeck wrote:

> On Dec 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Randy Phillips wrote:
>
>> L9 needs to be re-branded and repackaged to CoolName 1.0. Given it's
>> sorted history the Lasso brand is not generally taken seriously in the
>> industry except for the die hards. Update Lasso 8.5.x to give current
>> customers a few years to make the transition, maybe create a migration
>> tool to CoolName 1.0, then phase the Lasso brand out. Start over with
>> a new product and a new marketing scheme with a very focused and
>> targeted audience. Of course, the company name, LassoSoft is a
>> problem.
>
> In the past we have had this discussion internally as well.  While there is some appeal to a fresh start there is also a fair amount of good brand history tied to the "Lasso" name.  I often run into people who have heard of Lasso, but don't really have any opinion of it.  However, that name recognition holds some weight on its own.  Ten years is an eternity in Internet time and a product with that longevity, even with some warts, is an asset.  It's an idea worthy of discussion, but I don't think a name change is necessarily a home run.
>
> [fletcher]
>
>
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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Clive Bruton
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2

On 4 Dec 2010, at 02:12, Sean Stephens wrote:

> The first time time you make a mistake, it's OK. The second time,  
> it's unconscionable. Help us from making the same mistake once!

I hate to be sceptical, but this seems like a bit of a coda to me -  
ie, I cast my mind back to the rebirth of Lasso with the transfer to  
OmniPilot.

What appears to be missing, and we can all sense you're as keen as  
mustard, is a new business model that's going to make Lasso this week  
something different to what it was last week - I don't think that can  
mean throwing money/labour at it, that's been done. Perhaps what is  
to happen next is implied in your posts, it's certainly not explicit  
(to me), so... I think I still have the same questions today that I  
did yesterday.


-- Clive

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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Bil Corry-3
Clive Bruton wrote on 12/3/2010 7:25 PM:
> What appears to be missing, and we can all sense you're as keen as
> mustard, is a new business model that's going to make Lasso this week
> something different to what it was last week

I believe it's possible to retain the existing business model and keep it sustainable so long as stable, predictable, compelling upgrades are released.  I don't see it growing the Lasso user base by much, but I do see the existing Lasso user base holding steady and getting value out of Lasso for years to come.

Personally, I was working with a few others on forming a community-funded foundation to purchase Lasso and take it open-source.  We quickly got bogged down in the details -- going open source has a lot of tricky issues.  However, solving those issues and taking Lasso open-source is key to long-term growth in my opinion.  If that's a goal.


- Bil

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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Sean Stephens-2
In reply to this post by Clive Bruton

I am wholly in agreement, a good business model starts with an intelligent and well conceived plan. Our 10-year plan for LassoSoft, as it currently sits on paper, is certainly a good starting attempt at being well thought out. Though it will need to change as the world changes;

http://www.tec-canada.com/Chess-Theory

This plan starts with spending a month asking developers for ideas and input, on how to make a better plan - and listen carefully and intently (while getting other things moving in the background). Where else can you find 500 extraordinarily intelligent people who know your business history and competitive environment thoroughly? (And are highly opinionated?)

Don't you think that's a good start to a strong plan?

;)

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.

On 2010-12-03, at 10:25 PM, Clive Bruton wrote:

>
> On 4 Dec 2010, at 02:12, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>> The first time time you make a mistake, it's OK. The second time, it's unconscionable. Help us from making the same mistake once!
>
> I hate to be sceptical, but this seems like a bit of a coda to me - ie, I cast my mind back to the rebirth of Lasso with the transfer to OmniPilot.
>
> What appears to be missing, and we can all sense you're as keen as mustard, is a new business model that's going to make Lasso this week something different to what it was last week - I don't think that can mean throwing money/labour at it, that's been done. Perhaps what is to happen next is implied in your posts, it's certainly not explicit (to me), so... I think I still have the same questions today that I did yesterday.
>
>
> -- Clive
>
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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Clive Bruton

On 4 Dec 2010, at 04:57, Sean Stephens wrote:

> This plan starts with spending a month asking developers for ideas  
> and input, on how to make a better plan - and listen carefully and  
> intently (while getting other things moving in the background).  
> Where else can you find 500 extraordinarily intelligent people who  
> know your business history and competitive environment thoroughly?  
> (And are highly opinionated?)
>
> Don't you think that's a good start to a strong plan?

It may be, but as I haven't seen the draft of the plan that is the  
starting point of the discussion (am I missing some posts!?), it's  
hard to comment on what's right or wrong about it. Are you just  
asking for "blue sky" submissions? As I noted before, what you are  
planning could well be implied in your posts, but they certainly  
aren't explicit to me.


-- Clive

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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Clive Bruton
In reply to this post by Bil Corry-3

On 4 Dec 2010, at 04:42, Bil Corry wrote:

> I believe it's possible to retain the existing business model and  
> keep it sustainable so long as stable, predictable, compelling  
> upgrades are released.  I don't see it growing the Lasso user base  
> by much, but I do see the existing Lasso user base holding steady  
> and getting value out of Lasso for years to come.

I don't know what the figures are, but it already seems proven to me  
that the income level doesn't provide enough for continuing  
development. So, while throwing labour and money at L9 may get it to  
the stage that all of us want to adopt it, there is still the problem  
of where the ongoing funding comes from for 9.x and X.x.

Don't get me wrong, I think Lasso is a neat tool, but I think we've  
seen this cycle at least twice already. Sean's already pointed out  
that it's hard to compete against "free" (almost impossible in this  
sphere)... so I'm left wondering what's changing to resolve the  
underlying economic problem. That's not going to be solved externally  
(ie Python, PHP, etc aren't going to become commercial products), it  
needs a different model. Selling product at the previous level isn't  
going to do it, I doubt many of us can be persuaded to spend "more"  
on licences, or buy annual licences/support packages, or even  
contribute to the "Lasso Foundation"... and I don't know what the  
other options may be, but the same cycle again isn't going to change  
the outcome off the last cycle (except that someone is going to be  
even less willing to contribute another round of funding).


-- Clive

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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Eric Landmann
In reply to this post by Chris Wik-4
On 12/4/10 at 5:29 PM, [hidden email] (Chris Wik) wrote:

>Now if LassoSoft Inc. could pick up the (rather basic, but functional) Webmin module I wrote and make it rock, that would be perfect :-)

+1 here.

--Eric


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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Randy Phillips-2
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2
I don't think this is the appropriate forum to seriously discuss name
changes or re-branding efforts, and from comments made it doesn't
sound like there is much appetite for it in any case. So you are left
with this basic question: Why should Web developers choose Lasso9 over
the other brands?

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Sean Stephens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hmmm...
>
> We strongly considered renaming the parent company "Blueworld" (no kidding). If only because for me personally - as a fledgling and enthusiastic developer, I thought Blueworld was the bees knees. Cathy was especially dear to me.
>
> However, despite significant current developer dissent, our research showed us that the LassoSoft brand in general actually has a very positive public perception. In fact, both clients who know about it think it is great (just kidding).
>
> Lasso - and LassoSoft - has an unprecedented customer list. I have been reading it in the past few days and swooning. I am truly in shock over who has both used it in the past and who currently uses it for their back end. There is great saturation and memory recall here - especially from those harkening back to the old Mac world who now work with or run larger agencies (I have bumped into them from time to time, on a regular basis). To name a few we pulled from the list recently; Apple Computer, Inc., Symantec Corp., Cisco Systems, Inc., Sun Microsystems, Inc., Citrix, Motorola, Siemens, Air Canada, Volvo, Mister Transmission, WestJet, GE, Kodak, Makita, NASA, the United Nations, the US Food and Drug Administration, Stanford University... and 37,000+ more...
>
> That's what 15 years gives you with one brand name.
>
> Oddly enough, the core developers in the community are much more jaded to the name than the world at large (their clients). I can tell you - the clients of Treefrog have a very high opinion of Lasso, and we have staked a very profitable business on its reputation. They go to the website once - during decision time to use a developer or not - and that's about it. At the end of the day - end-client perception is what matters most for our ability to use the product.
>
> We just need to polish the name a bit - the rust has set in from the passing of time without a budget to make it shine - and it looks a bit old and busted. At its core, it's still made of hardened steel.
>
> Having said that - great feedback, thanks! Give us a few months, and let me know if we have been able to create a CoolName out of it once again.
>
> http://listening.lassosoft.com/The-Lasso-brand-is-dead
>
> And, having said that - if you have a better name in your pocket, I'll strongly consider it. Let me know!
>
> (Cobra? LHP? Warmfusion? .org? Lava? Bob?)
>
> Sean Stephens
> CEO
> LassoSoft Inc.
>
> On 2010-12-03, at 6:49 PM, Fletcher Sandbeck wrote:
>
>> On Dec 3, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Randy Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> L9 needs to be re-branded and repackaged to CoolName 1.0. Given it's
>>> sorted history the Lasso brand is not generally taken seriously in the
>>> industry except for the die hards. Update Lasso 8.5.x to give current
>>> customers a few years to make the transition, maybe create a migration
>>> tool to CoolName 1.0, then phase the Lasso brand out. Start over with
>>> a new product and a new marketing scheme with a very focused and
>>> targeted audience. Of course, the company name, LassoSoft is a
>>> problem.
>>
>> In the past we have had this discussion internally as well.  While there is some appeal to a fresh start there is also a fair amount of good brand history tied to the "Lasso" name.  I often run into people who have heard of Lasso, but don't really have any opinion of it.  However, that name recognition holds some weight on its own.  Ten years is an eternity in Internet time and a product with that longevity, even with some warts, is an asset.  It's an idea worthy of discussion, but I don't think a name change is necessarily a home run.
>>
>> [fletcher]
>>
>>
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--
!!Rp

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Re: [ANN] Truth and Reconciliation

Waters, Thomas C
In reply to this post by Clive Bruton
Clive says this very well. Any of us who have used Lasso understand it has real value to a web developer. But what is being said now is what was said when Omnipilot bought Lasso, and again when it became Lassosoft. The rhetoric is the same, and how will the results be any different.  

From my perspective, the decision to do such a massive overhaul with v9 was both very needed, and a bigger project than was feasible to pull off well.

I've been watching Evernote grow, and every time I listen to the CEO, I can't help but think that there was a moment in Lasso history where Lasso was poised for the type of growth and success that product is enjoying.  Today, I think that it may be possible for Lasso to be a great, stable, easy to use niche product with a small but extremely loyal user base. Folks will come and go, but will the user base grow tremendously? I don't know.

There was one past Lasso version change that really brought Lasso close to dying. I don't remember- was it 7 or 8 or earlier? I just remember that it really stressed everything to the very edge, even though the work of the rewrite seemed worth it in the end.  
--
Thomas Waters
Director of New Media
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
[hidden email]
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu


On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:25 PM, Clive Bruton wrote:

>
> On 4 Dec 2010, at 02:12, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>> The first time time you make a mistake, it's OK. The second time,  
>> it's unconscionable. Help us from making the same mistake once!
>
> I hate to be sceptical, but this seems like a bit of a coda to me -  
> ie, I cast my mind back to the rebirth of Lasso with the transfer to  
> OmniPilot.
>
> What appears to be missing, and we can all sense you're as keen as  
> mustard, is a new business model that's going to make Lasso this week  
> something different to what it was last week - I don't think that can  
> mean throwing money/labour at it, that's been done. Perhaps what is  
> to happen next is implied in your posts, it's certainly not explicit  
> (to me), so... I think I still have the same questions today that I  
> did yesterday.
>
>
> -- Clive
>
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