[ANN] New Lasso Basics List

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[ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Sean Stephens-2
Greetings!

When I was a wee developer, trying hard to make it in the website world, I was always embarrassed to post my "stupid" questions to the LassoTalk list as it always seemed to have much more intelligent and knowledgeable people than regular society. I never felt it appropriate to waste their time.

As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this express purpose: where "no question is too menial".

You can sign sign up for this list on the LassoTalk website;

http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com

Invite your friends - especially students. People are most welcome to ask questions here if they are afraid to ask them in the broad daylight of LassoTalk.

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Brad Lindsay-2
On Dec 17, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:

> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>
> You can sign sign up for this list on the LassoTalk website;
>
> http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com


Just a suggestion:

When trying to register for the Lasso basics list, it took me a bit to find that I could click the i separately from the list name and that's where I needed to go to register. Maybe you could make an explicit link somewhere on the list page (http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com/lasso-basics) to where you need to go to register.

Brad
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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Marc Pinnell-3
+1 Same experience.

Brad Lindsay wrote:

> On Dec 17, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:
>
>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>>
>> You can sign sign up for this list on the LassoTalk website;
>>
>> http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com
>
>
> Just a suggestion:
>
> When trying to register for the Lasso basics list, it took me a bit to find that I could click the i separately from the list name and that's where I needed to go to register. Maybe you could make an explicit link somewhere on the list page (http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com/lasso-basics) to where you need to go to register.
>
> Brad
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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

John May-2
Ditto.

        - John


On 12/18/10 1:01 PM, Marc Pinnell wrote:

> +1 Same experience.
>
> Brad Lindsay wrote:
>> On Dec 17, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:
>>
>>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>>>
>>> You can sign sign up for this list on the LassoTalk website;
>>>
>>> http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com
>>
>>
>> Just a suggestion:
>>
>> When trying to register for the Lasso basics list, it took me a bit to
>> find that I could click the i separately from the list name and that's
>> where I needed to go to register. Maybe you could make an explicit
>> link somewhere on the list page
>> (http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com/lasso-basics) to where you need to go
>> to register.
>>
>> Brad


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

bfr00
Agreed. Very much NOT an example of simplicity.
Tiny and obscure.

Bruce

On Dec 18, 2010, at 10:17 AM, John May wrote:

> Ditto.
>
> - John
>
>
> On 12/18/10 1:01 PM, Marc Pinnell wrote:
>> +1 Same experience.
>>
>> Brad Lindsay wrote:
>>> On Dec 17, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>>>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>>>>
>>>> You can sign sign up for this list on the LassoTalk website;
>>>>
>>>> http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Just a suggestion:
>>>
>>> When trying to register for the Lasso basics list, it took me a bit to
>>> find that I could click the i separately from the list name and that's
>>> where I needed to go to register. Maybe you could make an explicit
>>> link somewhere on the list page
>>> (http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com/lasso-basics) to where you need to go
>>> to register.
>>>
>>> Brad
>
>
> --
>
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> Point In Space Internet Solutions             [hidden email]
>
>             Twitter: http://twitter.com/pointinspace/
>           Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/PointInSpace/
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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Rick Draper-2
In reply to this post by Brad Lindsay-2
+1

It might also be better to have a more significant change when the
subscription email address is submitted - the addition of the one line to
check your email for a confirmation is also a bit subtle / obscure.

Very best regards,

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Brad Lindsay
Sent: Sunday, 19 December 2010 3:48 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

On Dec 17, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:

> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this express
purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>
> You can sign sign up for this list on the LassoTalk website;
>
> http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com


Just a suggestion:

When trying to register for the Lasso basics list, it took me a bit to find
that I could click the i separately from the list name and that's where I
needed to go to register. Maybe you could make an explicit link somewhere on
the list page (http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com/lasso-basics) to where you
need to go to register.

Brad
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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

stevepiercy
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2
On 12/17/10 at 11:01 PM, [hidden email] (Sean Stephens) pronounced:

>As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>express purpose: where "no question is too menial".

I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.

* There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for
yet another list, so it becomes a case of the
newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF.  Unless you do
something like this:
http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards

* IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that
there was yet another list.  It wasn't clear whether 9 questions
could be asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.

* Any newb question has already been answered and archived on
LassoTalk.  Yet another list directs them away from this resource.

* LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies.  rawr.

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

decorior
 + 1
On Dec 18, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote:

> On 12/17/10 at 11:01 PM, [hidden email] (Sean Stephens) pronounced:
>
>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>
> I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.
>
> * There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for yet another list, so it becomes a case of the newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF.  Unless you do something like this:
> http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards
>
> * IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that there was yet another list.  It wasn't clear whether 9 questions could be asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.
>
> * Any newb question has already been answered and archived on LassoTalk.  Yet another list directs them away from this resource.
>
> * LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies.  rawr.
>
> --steve
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>
>
> #############################################################
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>

Deco Rior
[hidden email]

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F:(303) 942-7417

TennisSource.Net
software to power your tennis facility


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Doug Gentry-2
Actually, I think the Basics list can work. I'll subscribe to both (though my attempt to subscribe to basics seems to have fallen on deaf "ears" (we'll see...). I bet there are a number of experienced developers who wouldn't mind contributing to the basics list, while monitoring the general list. As much as I enjoy the regular list, it can get pretty esoteric/technical at times, so it's a good strategy to have a way for new Lasso developers to join a comfortable, targeted community.

...Doug

On Dec 18, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Deco Rior wrote:

> + 1
> On Dec 18, 2010, at 2:37 PM, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote:
>
>> On 12/17/10 at 11:01 PM, [hidden email] (Sean Stephens) pronounced:
>>
>>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>>
>> I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.
>>
>> * There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for yet another list, so it becomes a case of the newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF.  Unless you do something like this:
>> http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards
>>
>> * IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that there was yet another list.  It wasn't clear whether 9 questions could be asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.
>>
>> * Any newb question has already been answered and archived on LassoTalk.  Yet another list directs them away from this resource.
>>
>> * LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies.  rawr.
>>
>> --steve
>>
>> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
>> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>>
>>
>> #############################################################
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>> Send administrative queries to  <[hidden email]>
>>
>
> Deco Rior
> [hidden email]
>
> O:(720) 207-2806
> F:(303) 942-7417
>
> TennisSource.Net
> software to power your tennis facility
>
>
> This electronic mail message is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and privileged information.   Any unauthorized review, use, printing, copying, retention, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email message to the sender and delete all copies of this message. Thank you
>
>
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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Rick Draper-2
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
I think that Steve makes a good point here

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, 19 December 2010 7:38 AM
Steve Piercy pronounced:

> I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.

* There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for yet another list, so it becomes a case of the newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF.  Unless you do something like this:
http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards

* IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that there was yet another list.  It wasn't clear whether 9 questions could be asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.

* Any newb question has already been answered and archived on LassoTalk.  Yet another list directs them away from this resource.

* LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies.  rawr.

--steve



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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Fabrizio Carioni
In reply to this post by Sean Stephens-2
> Greetings!
>
> When I was a wee developer, trying hard to make it in the website world, I was always embarrassed to post my "stupid" questions to the LassoTalk list as it always seemed to have much more intelligent and knowledgeable people than regular society. I never felt it appropriate to waste their time.
>

I think it's a great idea. I'm sure it's going to be useful also to people that have been playing around with lasso for a long time but still never really had the chance or possibility to go very deep and still need to make basic questions.
I mean... there must be others... mmm... it's not actually for me but in general... mmm...

Ok, i'm subscribing!!!!

:-)


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Lars A. Gundersen-2
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
I agree. There are a lot of great new things going on here, but this particular one I don't think is the right move for the reasons Steve mentions. It just spreads the community  unnecessarily.

Lars

On 18. des. 2010, at 22.37, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote:

> On 12/17/10 at 11:01 PM, [hidden email] (Sean Stephens) pronounced:
>
>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>
> I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.
>
> * There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for yet another list, so it becomes a case of the newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF.  Unless you do something like this:
> http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards
>
> * IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that there was yet another list.  It wasn't clear whether 9 questions could be asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.
>
> * Any newb question has already been answered and archived on LassoTalk.  Yet another list directs them away from this resource.
>
> * LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies.  rawr.
>
> --steve

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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Marc Pope-2
In reply to this post by Brad Lindsay-2
Just a suggestion, please make the links auto-clickable.

For example on here:
http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com/lassotalk?id=260591

-Marc


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

John May-2
The right-hand sidebar is problematic too.  When I was on my big monitor
earlier, I could see all the "related" items.  However, now on my
MacBook I only see down to "BBEdit" talk.

Personally, I don't like sticky iframe stuff.

        - John


On 12/18/10 7:21 PM, Marc Pope wrote:
> Just a suggestion, please make the links auto-clickable.
>
> For example on here:
> http://lassotalk.lassosoft.com/lassotalk?id=260591
>
> -Marc
>


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

stevepiercy
On 12/18/10 at 11:07 PM, [hidden email] (John May) pronounced:

>Personally, I don't like sticky iframe stuff.

FWIW, it's not an iframe, it's just CSS.

     #menuright {
     ...
     position: fixed;
     ...
     }

Can be overridden with:

     position: absolute;

Nonetheless, I'm in agreement with you.  Sticky widgets that
follow your scrolling are annoying, and more so when you cannot
even see their end.  Yelp.com gives you the option to tell the
map widget, "Map, stay put!" with a checkbox.

--steve

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
-- --
Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder              
Soquel, CA
<[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>


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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Roddie Grant
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
+1

Roddie Grant


On 18/12/10 21:37, "Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 12/17/10 at 11:01 PM, [hidden email] (Sean Stephens) pronounced:
>
>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>
> I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.
>
> * There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for
> yet another list, so it becomes a case of the
> newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF.  Unless you do
> something like this:
> http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards
>
> * IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that
> there was yet another list.  It wasn't clear whether 9 questions
> could be asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.
>
> * Any newb question has already been answered and archived on
> LassoTalk.  Yet another list directs them away from this resource.
>
> * LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies.  rawr.
>
> --steve
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> -- --
> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder
> Soquel, CA
> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>
>
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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

darksoftmoon
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
I agree with what Steve said also.  What happens when a newb question  
gets posted to regular lasso talk?  Does the board collectively tell  
them to take their question "over there"?


>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".

Does this mean there are questions now that are too menial for  
Lassotalk?  I would say the majority of my questions have always  
fallen closer to the "newbish" spectrum than the advanced developer.  
I've posted, often feeling a bit embarrassed over the fact that my  
questions reveal my lack of a thorough understanding of the subject  
matter... but LT has a great community of developers willing to help.

Here's the thing... in some other forums, if you post a question not  
considered "worthy" you will often get the electronic version of a  
beat down... where the question goes unanswered and you are simply  
read the riot act and asked "did you even try to read the  
documentation?!?!"  Of course the documentation was read... but  
perhaps the concept is simply over my head or I am missing something.

Lassotalk has been great in that its members offer constructive advice  
if there is some to be had, or they keep their verbal tirade to  
themselves... or at least temper it in a manner that is still consider  
constructive.  If this is the environment of LassoTalk, why would an  
alternate post board be needed?

Just my 2ยข

--Rick



On Dec 18, 2010, at 4:37 PM, Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote:

> On 12/17/10 at 11:01 PM, [hidden email] (Sean Stephens)  
> pronounced:
>
>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>
> I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.
>
> * There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for yet  
> another list, so it becomes a case of the newbs-leading-the-newbs  
> with support from TF.  Unless you do something like this:
> http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards
>
> * IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that there  
> was yet another list.  It wasn't clear whether 9 questions could be  
> asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.
>
> * Any newb question has already been answered and archived on  
> LassoTalk.  Yet another list directs them away from this resource.
>
> * LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies.  rawr.
>
> --steve
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Steve Piercy               Web Site Builder               Soquel, CA
> <[hidden email]>                  <http://www.StevePiercy.com/>
>
>
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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Bil Corry-3
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
It is interesting to note that the idea of a "beginners list" has surfaced several times over the years, and each time it was reconsidered due to the issues Steve raises.  It'll be interesting to see how such a list actually performs now that it's a reality.


- Bil



Steve Piercy - Web Site Builder wrote on 12/18/2010 1:37 PM:

> On 12/17/10 at 11:01 PM, [hidden email] (Sean Stephens) pronounced:
>
>> As a result, we have started a new list: "Lasso Basics", for this
>> express purpose: where "no question is too menial".
>
> I think this is a bad idea for developers for the following reasons.
>
> * There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for yet another list, so it becomes a case of the newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF. Unless you do something like this:
> http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards
>
> * IMO, one of the lesser problems with adoption of 9 was that there was yet another list. It wasn't clear whether 9 questions could be asked on LassoTalk, or would even get answered.
>
> * Any newb question has already been answered and archived on LassoTalk. Yet another list directs them away from this resource.
>
> * LassoTalk subscribers are just harmless little bunnies. rawr.

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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Miles Works
In reply to this post by stevepiercy
All,

> * There is no reason for an advanced developer to sign up for yet another list, so it becomes
> a case of the newbs-leading-the-newbs with support from TF.  Unless you do something like this:
> http://plone.org/news/2010-plone-help-channel-superstar-awards

Love this line: Prizes cannot be redeemed for cash or beer.

As a rule, I believe that the only way that a new basics list will actually do its job is by more advanced developers actually keeping tabs on both lists, and pitching in.

The same thing happens in tango when I'm teaching beginners.  I am a more advanced dancer, and so I know that the one of the only ways that you're going raise up a crop of new dancers is that when you're at a practica (a place to practice what you've learned in a free and open environment) you take beginners out on the floor and you help them to be better dancers by giving them clear, direct, feedback.  You answer their questions, help them to see right from wrong.  And generally get them walking cleanly and clearly.  One of my first teachers used to say to me on a regular basis: "Miles you have to dance with your betters!  It lets you know just how far you still have to go!".  He was right.  Its also true that as an advanced dancer that I have to give back to where I came from...regularly!  It works both ways, and I do....often, aside from teaching this stuff...I do give a lot of feedback to beginner dancers...and no, not just the pretty girls.  everyone.

That said.

I think that a noob list is a great idea...and should be encouraged and helped along by all of us that have been where those new folks are...we all started somewhere!  And I will virtually guarantee that nearly all of you, at the beginning, were helped by X, Y, or Z names you see on this list.  So it stands to reason that those in the know will help out those in the not know.

Miles.



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Re: [ANN] New Lasso Basics List

Sean Stephens-2
In reply to this post by John May-2
Greetings!

Thanks for all the great feedback over the weekend! It is much appreciated!

We are certainly looking at the following;

- Simplifying/improving the sign-up process, making it more obvious
- Auto-linking the embedded text

We have also discussed some other ideas, for later;

- Auto-compiling and graphing the stats of list usage
- Scrubbing list junk from the bottom of emails

I'm interested in any other ideas on how to make this the best tool possible for our group. Who uses Nabble, or Google groups? And why? What piece of functionality is critical for you, that would make your experience better? Have you seen any other functionality that we can mimic or improve on?

Thanks for more feedback!

Sean Stephens
CEO
LassoSoft Inc.
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